# Can Scott Walker be re-elected Governor of Wisconsin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 20, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184 "2014-06-20T00:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/241 "2014-10-16T19:51:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Come now, you know this election is a dead heat, which means Walker might lose it, and if he does, how will you be sure the minimum-wage issue had no effect on the vote? The election is not a dead heat. but tell you what: if Walker loses, I’ll concede the issue was of major importance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/242 "2014-10-16T20:00:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > **Matthew 7:13-14** New International Version (NIV) > 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. That’s a fair answer to my question. But it’s not a Catholic answer. Catholics believe that Scripture is not interpreted alone, but in the light of Holy Tradition, by the magisterium of the Church. The Church has always taught that Christ died to redeem the sins of all mankind – His death was not limited to redeeming the sins only of faithful Catholics, or baptized Christians. There is a path to heaven for almost all people. Hell certainly exists, of course, but God’s mercy is such that we expect that vast majority of people to end up in heaven – directly, or via a stop in Purgatory. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/243 "2014-10-16T20:31:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Disagree. > > But the disagreement may rest on the word “deserves.” > > I might say of a losing team, “Man, that was a tough loss. The Redskins played well, and only lost because of a couple unlucky plays. They deserved to win.” > > It should be clear in that sense that I don’t actually contend that the Redskins should be given a win on the record books. > > So what do you mean by “deserve?” Do you mean that a person who works hard should have a legally cognizable claim to the items above? I mean “deserves” in the moral sense – in the sense of cosmic justice. Like a child who is abused did not deserve this abuse, and the abuser deserves serious punishment. The “legally cognizable claim” goes to our beliefs about the role of government, and isn’t what I’m asking about. I’m asking about your sense of justice. Beyond this, assuming we agree that it is “just” that a hard-working and decent individual, regardless of talent and skill, deserves (in the cosmic justice sense) these basic necessities, there’s a further question – what should we do about this injustice if they don’t get it? Obviously, I think the government should set conditions (minimum wage, assistance, health care, etc.) such that _anyone_ who works hard and plays by the rules gets these necessities. You don’t – but you probably feel there’s some other way for this hard-working decent person to get justice. What way is this? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/244 "2014-10-16T20:47:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This isn’t written in the sky anywhere, or in some holy book. This is just what I think. But what you think is wrong. So it doesn’t need to be taken seriously. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/245 "2014-10-16T21:59:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I love it when atheists think they understand religious doctrine. They’re not atheier, they’re the atheist! Noting the egregious errors of others is part and parcel of this board. Turning that observation into a insult that is based on their membership in a group is not appropriate. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/246 "2014-10-16T22:13:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Church has always taught that Christ died to redeem the sins of all mankind – His death was not limited to redeeming the sins only of faithful Catholics, or baptized Christians. There is a path to heaven for almost all people. Hell certainly exists, of course, but God’s mercy is such that we expect that vast majority of people to end up in heaven – directly, or via a stop in Purgatory. Out of curiosity - does the Church consider this to have applied retroactively? Not that that would matter much in purely numbers terms. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/247 "2014-10-16T22:55:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I mean “deserves” in the moral sense – in the sense of cosmic justice. Like a child who is abused did not deserve this abuse, and the abuser deserves serious punishment. > > The “legally cognizable claim” goes to our beliefs about the role of government, and isn’t what I’m asking about. I’m asking about your sense of justice. I don’t think the natural universe is just. If a good, hard-working, decent husband and father is trapped in a burning building, the world of nature will not hearken to his cries; the laws of physics will not bend because his life has been exemplary. So I’m willing to say that in some cosmic, unattainable sense, sure, someone who works hard and does everything right, insofar as he is able to discern what “right” is, ‘deserves’ the rewards you mention. But the natural world is not remotely affected by that standard. > [@](#): > > Beyond this, assuming we agree that it is “just” that a hard-working and decent individual, regardless of talent and skill, deserves (in the cosmic justice sense) these basic necessities, there’s a further question – what should we do about this injustice if they don’t get it? Obviously, I think the government should set conditions (minimum wage, assistance, health care, etc.) such that _anyone_ who works hard and plays by the rules gets these necessities. You don’t – but you probably feel there’s some other way for this hard-working decent person to get justice. What way is this? There isn’t. Sometimes, what we see as “justice” is simply not available. And I’m not generally willing to give Fred “justice” by ordering Sam to give him money out of Sam’s pocket so that Fred’s “justice” is attained, because that’s not justice towards Sam. To whom does Sam look, then, for his own justice? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/248 "2014-10-16T22:56:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Out of curiosity - does the Church consider this to have applied retroactively? Not that that would matter much in purely numbers terms. Are you asking about people who died prior to Christ’s time on Earth? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/249 "2014-10-16T23:06:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think the natural universe is just. If a good, hard-working, decent husband and father is trapped in a burning building, the world of nature will not hearken to his cries; the laws of physics will not bend because his life has been exemplary. > > So I’m willing to say that in some cosmic, unattainable sense, sure, someone who works hard and does everything right, insofar as he is able to discern what “right” is, ‘deserves’ the rewards you mention. > > But the natural world is not remotely affected by that standard. Obviously not. In referring to a cosmic justice, I mean based on your understanding of what justice means in a broad moral sense. I think you get what I mean. > [@](#): > > There isn’t. Sometimes, what we see as “justice” is simply not available. And I’m not generally willing to give Fred “justice” by ordering Sam to give him money out of Sam’s pocket so that Fred’s “justice” is attained, because that’s not justice towards Sam. To whom does Sam look, then, for his own justice? From my point of view, they both look to society. Society (or at least my ideal society) deems everyone contribute, to some degree, to “correct” situations that would otherwise be unjust, like Fred’s here. So Sam, and everyone else, chip in a bit for Fred and the others when they’re down on their luck – not to equalize everything, but just to make sure they’re getting by – and then when Sam is suffering, Fred and everyone else chip in to keep him going. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/250 "2014-10-16T23:08:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Are you asking about people who died prior to Christ’s time on Earth? Yes. I’m sorry for the unclear question. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/251 "2014-10-16T23:54:24Z")
There’s a Scandinavian country, IIRC, that guarantees a basic minimum income for all citizens. I Can only imagine what **magellan** and **Bricker** think of that. That country must be a real hellhole, eh? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/252 "2014-10-17T00:10:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think the natural universe is just. If a good, hard-working, decent husband and father is trapped in a burning building, the world of nature will not hearken to his cries; the laws of physics will not bend because his life has been exemplary. > > So I’m willing to say that in some cosmic, unattainable sense, sure, someone who works hard and does everything right, insofar as he is able to discern what “right” is, ‘deserves’ the rewards you mention. > > But the natural world is not remotely affected by that standard. The timing and course of an unexpected conflagration are often things we have somewhat limited control over. The behavior of sociopaths intent on spreading misery in pursuit of personal gain is something we can realistically exercise somewhat greater control over. Society is not expected to hold up a mirror to nature, it is meant to improve upon it. Your jehovallah, the book says, made humans special, as compared to the rest of creation, from a religious perspective, you should be interested in improving upon the natural order, not just re-implementing the code of the jungle on top of society – that is just uncivilized. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/253 "2014-10-17T00:20:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The timing and course of an unexpected conflagration are often things we have somewhat limited control over. The behavior of sociopaths intent on spreading misery in pursuit of personal gain is something we can realistically exercise somewhat greater control over. Society is not expected to hold up a mirror to nature, it is meant to improve upon it. Your jehovallah, the book says, made humans special, as compared to the rest of creation, from a religious perspective, you should be interested in improving upon the natural order, not just re-implementing the code of the jungle on top of society – that is just uncivilized. Surely you’re against my imposing my religious views on secular policy, though. I mean, am I not supposed to keep my religion out of politics? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/254 "2014-10-17T00:55:55Z")
Give it a try, and get back to us. Think of it as an experiment. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/255 "2014-10-17T01:13:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Surely you’re against my imposing my religious views on secular policy, though. I mean, am I not supposed to keep my religion out of politics? I am saying you ought to show some moral consistency. You are clearly a catholic on abortion, but when it comes to otherwise working toward a more just and stable society, you seem to do what you want. Which kind of smacks of “cafeteria catholicism”. Yeah, sometimes religious ideals conform to and converge with the things that make society fair and just. We should not reject an idea out of hand merely because some scribe copied into a sacred text. “_Do unto others as you would have them do unto you_” is a good one, though its origin is kind of lost in the mists of history. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/256 "2014-10-17T01:19:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The election is not a dead heat. but tell you what: if Walker loses, I’ll concede the issue was of major importance. And even if he wins, don’t you think the minimum-wage issue will shave his margin? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/257 "2014-10-17T04:03:46Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am saying you ought to show some moral consistency. You are clearly a catholic on abortion, but when it comes to otherwise working toward a more just and stable society, you seem to do what you want. Which kind of smacks of “cafeteria catholicism”. Not at all. I disfavor abortion for non-religious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/258 "2014-10-17T04:04:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And even if he wins, don’t you think the minimum-wage issue will shave his margin? Nope. I don’t see anyone who would otherwise vote for Walker to be dissuaded by this issue. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/259 "2014-10-17T15:07:11Z")
You don’t? Well, I guess that settles\* that\*! ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184/260 "2014-10-18T01:54:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And even if he wins, don’t you think the minimum-wage issue will shave his margin? It’s difficult to tell, but either that, the debate, or some other factor cut his polling margin recently from 5 percent to a tie. That’s drastic, all things considered. Oh, and this: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17820252&postcount=220](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17820252&postcount=220) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-scott-walker-be-re-elected-governor-of-wisconsin/691184.md?page=14)