# Can self-raising flour kill mices? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413 "2012-10-21T13:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![oyster11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f6c823/32.png) [@oyster11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oyster11)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/1 "2012-10-21T13:17:43Z")
I know that baking soda can kill mices. Since self-raising flour contains what is called bicarb, can this kind of flour itself kill mices? For an effective poisin with this type of flour, do I need to add sugar? ---
**Author:** ![oyster11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f6c823/32.png) [@oyster11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oyster11)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/2 "2012-10-21T13:25:53Z")
By the way, the self-raising flour is kinda moldy and smells, does this mean that it has lost the “raising agent”, i.e. the bicarnonates, rendering them ineffective in killing mices? ---
**Author:** ![Coustralee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Coustralee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coustralee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/3 "2012-10-21T14:31:01Z")
i doubt it, ive used the bicarb soda with sugar and it had no effect I’ve tried instant mashed potato too, that didnt work - they loved the stuff. it may depend on how big your mice are. icing sugar and plaster of paris should work - i used pollyfilla, not a nice way to bump them off though. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/4 "2012-10-21T14:52:36Z")
The flour remedy sounds like the old wives’ tale about using grits to kill fire ants (grits supposedly swell up in the fire ants’ stomachs and explode, except that doesn’t happen). By the way, the plural of “mouse” is “mousies”. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/5 "2012-10-21T15:40:26Z")
If the bag fell on them or the flour [exploded](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion), that might kill the mice. How is baking soda supposed to kill the mice? I can’t find a reliable-looking source on the internet for this. For reference, self-raising flour is about 2.5% baking soda. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/6 "2012-10-21T18:46:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The flour remedy sounds like the old wives’ tale about using grits to kill fire ants (grits supposedly swell up in the fire ants’ stomachs and explode, except that doesn’t happen). > > By the way, the plural of “mouse” is “mousies”. I thought it was “[mice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse)” (without an “s”), although [this page](http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/the-plural-of-mouse.aspx) says mouses can be plural for a computer mouse (I prefer mice for either though). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/7 "2012-10-21T18:50:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > By the way, the plural of “mouse” is “mousies”. I thought it was meeces! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/8 "2012-10-21T19:09:30Z")
I imagine that the premise is that baking soda reacts with stomach acids, which produce gases, which the mouse supposedly can’t safely expel, and which therefore build up until something breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/9 "2012-10-21T19:24:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I imagine that the premise is that baking soda reacts with stomach acids, which produce gases, which the mouse supposedly can’t safely expel, and which therefore build up until something breaks. Right; this method will also work with rats and I presume other rodents, unless not being able to burp is unique to mice and rats. To the OP, [this page](http://pestnest.com/homemade-rat-poison/) advises using one part each of baking soda, flour and sugar; I doubt that baking soda alone would be that effective, unless they tried eating it because of the sodium (salt lick). Self-rising flour might not have enough baking soda though, and if it just gave them a stomachache, they might avoid it in the future. However, I do wonder about the effectiveness of this; even if they can’t burp, I would think that gas would force itself out before the pressure got high enough to rupture their stomachs, pressure also wouldn’t rise very fast, being limited by the small amount of acid initially and rate of acid secretion (sounds painful as well, if you want a relatively painless method of extermination). ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/10 "2012-10-21T19:31:17Z")
I don’t buy it. Rats and mice can poop so there is another way for gasses to escape from their digestive systems. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/11 "2012-10-21T19:38:37Z")
> [@Zulema](#): > > I don’t buy it. Rats and mice can poop so there is another way for gasses to escape from their digestive systems. If only we could persuade them to wear tiny corks. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/12 "2012-10-21T20:47:50Z")
I prefer meeceses. I call serious shenanigans on this. The idea that Alka Seltzer or rice can kill birds is [thoroughly debunked](http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/birdrice.asp). For this, 1) baking soda is much less reactive than Alka Seltzer and 2) our physiology is much closer to that of mice than birds. Whether or not they can “belch” is immaterial. I’m pretty sure I’ve smelled rat farts, and their diets and thus likely gas creation is almost the same as ours. Unless there’s a credible-looking page, I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/13 "2012-10-22T00:27:10Z")
How the hell do we know that rodents can’t burp? Where are the peer-reviewed studies? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/14 "2012-10-22T01:49:20Z")
I’ve heard that they can’t vomit, but even if that’s true, there’s rather a big difference between vomiting and burping, and it’s hard to imagine an esophageal anatomy that would allow food to pass in, but not allow gases to pass out. And did anyone else notice that the poster who asked about the mechanism was **Alka Seltzer**? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/15 "2012-10-22T02:17:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve heard that they can’t vomit, but even if that’s true, there’s rather a big difference between vomiting and burping, and it’s hard to imagine an esophageal anatomy that would allow food to pass in, but not allow gases to pass out. > > And did anyone else notice that the poster who asked about the mechanism was **Alka Seltzer**? One way valves, basically. [More than you ever wanted to know about the stomach anatomy of rats.](http://www.ratbehavior.org/vomit.htm#Rats) > [@](#): > > Summary > > Rats can’t vomit. They can’t burp either, and they don’t experience heartburn. Rats can’t vomit for several related reasons: (1) Rats have a powerful barrier between the stomach and the esophagus. They don’t have the esophageal muscle strength to overcome and open this barrier by force, which is necessary for vomiting. (2) Vomiting requires that the two muscles of the diaphragm contract independently, but rats give no evidence of being able to dissociate the activity of these two muscles. (3) Rats don’t have the complex neural connections within the brain stem and between brain stem and viscera that coordinate the many muscles involved in vomiting. There’s a chart later on in the article. Apparently the house mouse can’t vomit either; I assume for similar anatomical reasons, but IANARodentologist. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/16 "2012-10-22T02:30:27Z")
Even if the valve doesn’t normally open from internal pressure, though, you’d have to imagine that it’d be forced open before the rest of the stomach ruptured. You might make some mice really uncomfortable this way, but I don’t think you’d kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/17 "2012-10-22T04:21:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if the valve doesn’t normally open from internal pressure, though, you’d have to imagine that it’d be forced open before the rest of the stomach ruptured. I don’t have to imagine that. If it’s a true one-way valve, internal pressure likely makes it harder for it to open, and certainly would not force it open. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/18 "2012-10-22T12:59:14Z")
Yes, until it fails. And a failure of that valve is likely to be a lot less damaging for the mouse than a failure of any other part of the stomach wall. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/19 "2012-10-23T20:30:29Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > One way valves, basically. > > [More than you ever wanted to know about the stomach anatomy of rats.](http://www.ratbehavior.org/vomit.htm#Rats) > > There’s a chart later on in the article. Apparently the house mouse can’t vomit either; I assume for similar anatomical reasons, but IANARodentologist. I’m surprised nobody noticed this: > [@](#): > > Rats cannot vomit, but they do regurgitate occasionally. Regurgitation is different from vomiting. Vomiting is the forceful expulsion of stomach contents from the mouth. Vomiting is an active process: it is a complex, powerful reflex requiring the coordination of many muscles. In contrast, regurgitation is the passive, effortless flow of undigested stomach contents back into the esophagus. Regurgitation happens without any forceful abdominal contractions. So, their esophagus is not a “one way value”; they just can’t forcefully vomit. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413/20 "2012-10-23T20:32:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought it was meeces! Only if their names are Pixie and Dixie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-self-raising-flour-kill-mices/638413.md?page=2)