# Can/should anything be done about US shootings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263 "2015-12-02T23:16:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/302 "2015-12-10T01:27:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > On the topic that people are bringing up stats - the association between gun prevalence and homicide. I know scientists care about that. > > Or you could just keep having a fit. A fit of laughter at your inability to even know what my position is, even on this ridiculous tangent?? In multiple threads over literally years? It’s hard to do that. So, just to be clear here, you want me to support a position (that is tangential to even the thread itself) I haven’t taken and have zero interest in playing spin the stat over, and you accused me of being ‘anti-science’ over? 😛 Hell, I said up thread (not that you noticed) that there is obviously some correlation, even if it’s not 1 to 1 over having guns and getting gun based homicides…zero guns and zero gun deaths and all that. Yeah, no thanks. You guys can keep on spinning on this one…I have zero interest in something that, to me, is obvious wrt an association between guns and gun deaths and matters fuck all wrt what can or should be done about US shootings. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/303 "2015-12-10T07:57:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As for “virtually no restriction”: > > [Gun law in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States) > > [Gun laws in the United States by state - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state) compared to pretty much any other equivalent nation, those guns laws are very much the equivalent of “virtually no restriction” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/304 "2015-12-10T11:30:31Z")
> [@XT](#): > > A fit of laughter at your inability to even know what my position is, even on this ridiculous tangent?? In multiple threads over literally years? It’s hard to do that. So, just to be clear here, you want me to support a position (that is tangential to even the thread itself) I haven’t taken and have zero interest in playing spin the stat over, and you accused me of being ‘anti-science’ over? 😛 Hell, I said up thread (not that you noticed) that there is obviously some correlation, even if it’s not 1 to 1 over having guns and getting gun based homicides…zero guns and zero gun deaths and all that. > > Yeah, no thanks. You guys can keep on spinning on this one…I have zero interest in something that, to me, is obvious wrt an association between guns and gun deaths and matters fuck all wrt what can or should be done about US shootings. Well then your little spasm was really helpful. Thanks for sharing an emoticon with us. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/305 "2015-12-10T13:32:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > For me in CA - yes. Though there are exceptions for interfamilial transfers, C&R, and some limited other circumstances. There’s also gun trusts too. But in most other states, not for private party sales. That’s part of why UBC is resisted - because it makes banning and/or confiscating incrementally easier. That, to me, seems like a type of “registration”. is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/306 "2015-12-10T13:43:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That, to me, seems like a type of “registration”. is it not? There are multiple statements you quoted - which are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/307 "2015-12-10T13:48:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > There are multiple statements you quoted - which are you referring to? Sorry, I meant the filling out of forms and providing information during some (most?) gun purchase transactions. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/308 "2015-12-10T14:13:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, I meant the filling out of forms and providing information during some (most?) gun purchase transactions. That is not a requirement in most states for private party transfer. I stated this in the post you quoted previously. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/309 "2015-12-10T14:28:14Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That is not a requirement in most states for private party transfer. I stated this in the post you quoted previously. That’s fine, I don’t know the rules. But the forms required to be filled out for whatever sales that require the forms are a type of registration, no? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/310 "2015-12-10T14:30:23Z")
Not as defined. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/311 "2015-12-10T14:38:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Well then your little spasm was really helpful. Thanks for sharing an emoticon with us. Not nearly as helpful as your…whatever it was that you were doing. Your contribution, as always, was…something. And it was my pleasure sharing the emoticon with you, Hentor. Always a pleasure old boy. I’m sure we’ll be doing this again, since you seem to be a boundless pool of strawmen and disingenuous posts, especially on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/312 "2015-12-10T14:58:03Z")
[Supreme Court rejects challenge to assault weapon ban](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-guns-idUSKBN0TQ1SU20151207) **“The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday rejected a challenge by gun rights activists to a Chicago suburb’s ordinance banning assault weapons and large-capacity magazines, handing a victory to gun control advocates amid a fierce debate over the nation’s firearms laws.”** Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/313 "2015-12-10T15:00:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not as defined. So the definition of registration in this context is what? On file with the government? Aren’t the forms that ARE filled out on file with the gun stores now? For the sales that require the form to be completed of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/314 "2015-12-10T15:43:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …since you seem to be a boundless pool of strawmen and disingenuous posts, especially on this subject. This is so discordant with my posts on this subject that I am dubious you know what either “strawmen” or “disingenuous” actually mean. Please specify or retract. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/315 "2015-12-10T16:50:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So the definition of registration in this context is what? On file with the government? Aren’t the forms that ARE filled out on file with the gun stores now? For the sales that require the form to be completed of course. Yes, the registration data is there. It is held by the selling or transferring dealer for the lifetime of his license. The forms are to be surrendered upon request by ATF or local agencies. All that is missing is a central database to store everything. The NICS background check system sort of does so, but the data is supposedly scrubbed after 90 days for yes results and 10 years for rejected requests. Currently it is against the law to have a Federal gun registry other than for class III weapons or accessories. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/316 "2015-12-10T17:09:47Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > The NICS background check system sort of does so, but the data is supposedly scrubbed after 90 days for yes results and 10 years for rejected requests. What does this mean? I looked at the form, it says the seller must retain the form for 20 years for an approved NICS check, and 5 years for a denied one. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/317 "2015-12-10T18:01:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What does this mean? I looked at the form, it says the seller must retain the form for 20 years for an approved NICS check, and 5 years for a denied one. The seller and the government are different. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/318 "2015-12-10T18:05:05Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The seller and the government are different. So when the NICS request is received, the government deletes any record of the request after 90 days, assuming it was approved? If that is the case, then ok, I understand now. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/319 "2015-12-10T20:18:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m curious about those stats too, but the gun violence stats are useful in refuting the assertions of some that the availability and ubiquity of guns have nothing to do with gun violence. Yes but gun violence by itself is a relatively meaningless statistic. You might as well say more nun-chuks = more nun-chuk violence. > [@](#): > > I understand that people determined to kill themselves will do so regardless of method or tools available. But presumably there are some folks who hit bottom or otherwise feel moments of suicidal ideation and might not kill themselves if there weren’t a very easy method nearby. > > No idea whether this would be a handful or a significant amount of US suicides. There are probably at least some people who would not commit suicide in the absence of guns but I am almost positive that the number is much much smaller than 20,000 people. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/320 "2015-12-10T20:20:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > OK, I’ll accept that difference. ;)😛 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263/321 "2015-12-10T20:41:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I would love if the left campaigned on registration. They’d lose, hard. It depends. Right after Sandy Hook? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-should-anything-be-done-about-us-shootings/739263.md?page=17)