# Can some one explain what's going on in Brazil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701 "2016-04-20T02:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/21 "2016-04-20T18:20:37Z")
IIRC, members of parliament in Canada and Britain have or had some form of immunity from arrest (but not prosecution); ditto for Congress in the USA? They can still be charged, but what sort of arrest can happen and when is limited (to prevent intimidation or something like that) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/22 "2016-04-20T18:24:01Z")
Article I, Section 6, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution states in part, - for any Speech or Debate in either House, [senators and representatives] shall not be questioned in any other place.\* The purpose of the clause is to prevent the arrest and prosecution of unpopular legislators based on their political views. The U.S. Supreme Court has gradually defined and redefined the Speech or Debate Clause in several cases over the years. The first case concerning the Speech and Debate Clause was Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. (13 Otto) 168, 26 L. Ed. 377 (1880). The Court has interpreted the Speech or Debate Clause to mean that members of Congress and their aides are immune from prosecution for their “legislative acts.” This does not mean that members of Congress and their aides may not be prosecuted. Rather, evidence of legislative acts may not be used in a prosecution against a member of Congress or a congressional aide. The main controversy surrounding the Speech or Debate Clause concerns the scope of the phrase “legislative acts.” The phrase obviously encompasses speeches and debates on the floor of the Senate or the House of Representatives. According to the Supreme Court, voting, preparing committee reports, and conducting committee hearings also are legislative acts, but republishing legislative materials for distribution to constituents and accepting a bribe to influence a vote are not. From [here](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Congressional+immunity). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/23 "2016-04-20T18:30:20Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > It’s not qute that bad. A cabinet level official can only be prosecuted in the [Supreme Court.](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-15/lula-said-to-agree-in-principle-to-take-brazil-cabinet-position) Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/24 "2016-04-20T19:03:10Z")
This [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFKsY5O7oYs) seemed interesting. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/25 "2016-04-20T22:47:42Z")
Business as usual…heh… Every single time I have been in Brazil I somehow find myself gazing at a television screen somewhere inevitably they are going over the latest corruption scandal. I can tell this even across the room with the sound off. How can I tell? Because they are always showing photocopied documents on the screen, with certain irregularities indicated in yellow highlighter. I think they show photocopied cooked books in every single Brazilian newscast. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/26 "2016-04-21T00:22:23Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IIRC, members of parliament in Canada and Britain have or had some form of immunity from arrest (but not prosecution); ditto for Congress in the USA? They can still be charged, but what sort of arrest can happen and when is limited (to prevent intimidation or something like that) No, it’s an immunity from civil process while the House is in session, and 40 days before it starts, and 40 days after. Why 40 days? Because that’s how long it took a member of Parliament in England to arrive in London from the wilds of Northumbria and Yorkshire, riding by horse and carriage, and we in Canada think that’s a fair measure of parliamentary immunity. 😛 An MP can be arrested on a criminal charge. [Fred Rose, MP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rose_(politician)), was arrested on the floor of the Commons and eventually convicted of spying. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/27 "2016-04-21T01:50:00Z")
A friend of ours has just returned from living in rural northern Brazil for 9 years (she still talks to people there every day). One of the reasons she left is this matter, and the social disruption being caused by the money spent on the World Cup and now the Olympics. It’s now clear to the poor that there always was money that could have been spent on improving their lot, it just wasn’t. She says that, while Rousseff may well be technically guilty of this charge, she was almost unique in not doing it to benefit herself. She’s probably the least corrupt President they’ve had. She thinks the motive for the charge to remove her because she’s not corrupt enough, to make way for a return to the old corrupt ways. There is apparently no-one likely to replace her who is less corrupt than her. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/28 "2016-04-21T12:28:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No, absolutely not. Before none of these people would have ever been prosecuted. Corruption has been endemic, but investigations and prosecutions never got anywhere near this far. > [@pkbites](#): > > I was just in Brazil last November. The language barrier was pretty heavy there. The few people we spoke with that spoke any English were quick to start ranting about how corrupt their government was. We didn’t ask them anything about it. They just volunteered the opinion. We went on 2 excursions and during the tours even the guides kept going on about how crooked their leaders were. > > Been to a helluva lot of countries and never experienced anything like that before! > [@rbroome](#): > > My favorite quote story about Brazilian corruption cases is from one of the prosecutors involved: “It always ends with a pizza party”. That is, even when corruption cases are brought and won, the defendants always seem to win on appeal and celebrate with a party. > > Corruption in Brazil seems to be widespread. Enhanced by the recent run-up in resource prices. Now that the money is drying up, more cases are coming to light. > > What interests me is the apparently strong legal structure in the country. These cases are arousing public ire because they are being investigated and publicized. In most places the public structures: lawyers prosecutors reporters and publications, for this don’t exist. Brazil deserves a lot of credit for building these structures and supporting them. > > Now they need to work on their public integrity laws and their culture of graft. Unfortunately the people in charge of the laws are the ones most in fear of better laws. But the voters seem to have a message. Hopefully that message will result in better governance. > [@Askance](#): > > A friend of ours has just returned from living in rural northern Brazil for 9 years (she still talks to people there every day). One of the reasons she left is this matter, and the social disruption being caused by the money spent on the World Cup and now the Olympics. It’s now clear to the poor that there always was money that could have been spent on improving their lot, it just wasn’t. > > She says that, while Rousseff may well be technically guilty of this charge, she was almost unique in not doing it to benefit herself. She’s probably the least corrupt President they’ve had. She thinks the motive for the charge to remove her because she’s not corrupt enough, to make way for a return to the old corrupt ways. There is apparently no-one likely to replace her who is less corrupt than her. In a way, I think it’s partially the fact that Lula and Dilma both empowered the people enough for them to stand up to this shit. They’re sort of victims of themselves. What Dilma has done is corrupt, but it’s not all _that_ bad, relatively. At the same time, it’s quite amazing to see the sheer amounts of people standing up to this corruption. People who until a few years ago weren’t even able to formulate opinions in this way, and certainly weren’t motivated to take to the streets. They weren’t talking about it down 't pub, never mind facebook. When I lived there I would have to go to the mayor’s disgusting parties to secure funds for our organisation, because I was a pretty blond woman. Yuck. I don’t think that shit would fly there now, when I see the facebook posts of my friends there. The kids that I worked with, who were in the huge education programmes set up by Lula, are now eloquently posting about seeing hospitals closed for the lack of doctors, while enormous glittering facilities are being set up for the Olympics. This education thingy, there might be something to it 😉 but then you get people with articulated opinions and the power to do something with those opinions and all that. Oops. It’s a tough one, because Lula and Dilma did some great things in a huge country where it wasn’t easy to do what they did. They weren’t perfect, that was how those things went. But now people realise it doesn’t have to be that way and it is time for their comeuppance. Maybe they’re like those spiders who let their babies eat them: the final step of the plan is to let the people get rid of corruption once and for all and they get to eat mum & dad? But what happens next? Who comes after them? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/29 "2016-04-21T13:23:18Z")
I’m finding this thread very interesting. Thanks for the replies, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/30 "2016-04-21T13:39:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Article I, Section 6, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution states in part, > > - for any Speech or Debate in either House, [senators and representatives] shall not be questioned in any other place.\* > > [snip]… Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/31 "2016-04-25T17:54:18Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > The kids that I worked with, who were in the huge education programmes set up by Lula, are now eloquently posting about seeing hospitals closed for the lack of doctors, while enormous glittering facilities are being set up for the Olympics. This education thingy, there might be something to it 😉 but then you get people with articulated opinions and the power to do something with those opinions and all that. Oops. > > It’s a tough one, because Lula and Dilma did some great things in a huge country where it wasn’t easy to do what they did. They weren’t perfect, that was how those things went. But now people realise it doesn’t have to be that way and it is time for their comeuppance. Maybe they’re like those spiders who let their babies eat them: the final step of the plan is to let the people get rid of corruption once and for all and they get to eat mum & dad? But what happens next? Who comes after them? I agree with this to a large degree. Once you get a middle class, they start to want to have a say in things, and to see that things are working for them. People are getting much more vocal about the corruption, and the advent of social media lets these stories spread in a way that they didn’t in the past. What I’ve seen and heard is that the television and print media are controlled by rich families who are affiliated with the right wing. However, a lot of this is being driven and organized on social media such as Facebook and Whatsapp. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/32 "2016-04-27T07:02:08Z")
Another article which mentions what is happening in Brazil: > **[Washington Launches Its Attack Against BRICS — Paul Craig Roberts |](https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/04/22/washington-launches-its-attack-against-brics-paul-craig-roberts/)** ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/33 "2016-04-27T10:11:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Not in France. Good on you guys, because frankly that’s shit. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/34 "2016-04-28T23:19:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I don’t know enough about Brazil to make sense of what I see in the news. > > Something about the current President of Brazil giving a position to the former President, which sheltered the former president from a corruption inquiry by granting prosecutorial immunity? > > And now the current President is facing impeachment, with her opponents saying it’s because she sheltered a corrupt ally, and her supporters saying it’s just partisan payback? > > Is that any where near accurate? It mostly the conservatives that are blaming the government for putting way to much money into social programs. And taking money and putting it into social programs and borrowing more money. It is more political move.They don’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/35 "2016-05-15T06:10:49Z")
Well, she’s been impeached and suspended from office, pending a trial in the Senate, near as i can understand. [Dilma Rousseff: ‘I’m the victim of a great injustice’](http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/americas/brazil-rousseff-impeachment-vote/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/36 "2016-05-17T01:50:32Z")
From what I heard, the impeachment motion passed both houses with hefty supermajorities. Rousseff better start her apartment hunting sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/37 "2017-06-01T13:18:28Z")
Here is an excellent indepth article about the Brazilian crisis: [Www.theguardian.com/world/20...dal-in-history](http://Www.theguardian.com/world/20...dal-in-history) > [@](#): > > Operation Car Wash: The biggest corruption scandal ever? > The investigation that led to Cerveró’s arrest – codenamed Lava Jato (Car Wash) – was about to uncover an unprecedented web of corruption. At first, the press described it as the biggest corruption scandal in the history of Brazil; then, as other countries and foreign firms were dragged in, the world. The case would go on to discover illegal payments of more than $5bn to company executives and political parties, put billionaires in jail, drag a president into court and cause irreparable damage to the finances and reputations of some of the world’s biggest companies. It would also expose a culture of systemic graft in Brazilian politics, and provoke a backlash from the establishment fierce enough to bring down one government and leave another on the brink of collapse…: ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/38 "2017-06-01T15:44:57Z")
Don’t know what happened to your link there - try this one: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/01/brazil-operation-car-wash-is-this-the-biggest-corruption-scandal-in-history](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/01/brazil-operation-car-wash-is-this-the-biggest-corruption-scandal-in-history) ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/39 "2017-06-01T19:57:01Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Here is an excellent indepth article about the Brazilian crisis: Wait, is the current scandal the same as the one that brought down Rousseff last year? Back when **Northern Piper** started this thread in April 2016, that’s presumably what was he [?] was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701/40 "2017-06-06T05:11:25Z")
Yes, when I started the thread last year, it was the pending impeachment of the President I was asking about. This Car Wash thing is all new to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-some-one-explain-whats-going-on-in-brazil/752701.md?page=3)