# Can somebody explain what point Rick Perry was trying to make? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286 "2014-09-23T00:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/1 "2014-09-23T00:37:44Z")
Rick Perry made a statement on the topic of Joan Rivers’ death and I’m not sure what point he was trying to make. Here’s the facts for background: 1. A law was enacted in Texas which tightened regulations on medical clinics. As a result many clinics closed down. 2. Joan Rivers died a few weeks ago. She suffered from complications while having a minor throat operation performed at a surgical clinic in New York. Here’s Perry’s statement:\* “It was interesting that when Joan Rivers, and the procedure that she had done, where she died – that was a clinic. And I’m just – it’s a curious thought that if they had had that type of regulations in place, whether or not that individual would be still alive.”\* So is Perry saying that New York needs more regulations on health care? And he’s holding up Texas as an example of how the government should be enacting more regulations? If so, that seems like an unusual position for a conservative politician to be taking. It’s certainly the first time I recall seeing an accusation against the Democrats (who are in power in New York) for not having enough regulations. And, yes, I understand the context behind the Texas regulations. The clinics that were closed were mostly ones that performed abortions. But I’m not seeing any connection between Joan Rivers’ death and abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/2 "2014-09-23T00:46:52Z")
Makers don’t go to clinics. Takers go to clinics. Therefore, more regulation is justified. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/3 "2014-09-23T00:50:48Z")
I think he just wants no clinics. As in, abortion clinics. Hospitals only. I think. So if Joan had been in a hospital, she’d still be alive. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/4 "2014-09-23T01:28:47Z")
“Therefore abortion restrictions. LOL.” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/5 "2014-09-23T01:34:37Z")
Republicans like to pass regulations on clinics that specifically make it difficult or impossible to run clinics that offer abortion services, but they attempt to pass them off as generally applicable regulations necessary for the protection of their constituents (so as to not run afoul of Roe v Wade). This is what Perry was doing. Attempting to justify these types of regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/6 "2014-09-23T02:04:28Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Republicans like to pass regulations on clinics that specifically make it difficult or impossible to run clinics that offer abortion services, but they attempt to pass them off as generally applicable regulations necessary for the protection of their constituents (so as to not run afoul of Roe v Wade). > > This is what Perry was doing. Attempting to justify these types of regulations. This. He’s trying to say abortion clinics aren’t safe. I mean hell, if Joan Rivers can die from a simple throat surgery, then by all means, let’s have tougher regulations on abortion clinics! Never mind that abortions are less invasive than throat surgery. And never mind the actual mortality rates of abortions in clinics compared to those abortions done outside of clinics. (As in home abortions) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/7 "2014-09-23T02:16:51Z")
He seems to be suggesting that Rivers died of a botched minor neck surgery at some back-alley abortion clinic, the like of which could no longer exist under the new Texas rules. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/8 "2014-09-23T02:18:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Republicans like to pass regulations on clinics that specifically make it difficult or impossible to run clinics that offer abortion services, but they attempt to pass them off as generally applicable regulations necessary for the protection of their constituents (so as to not run afoul of Roe v Wade). > > This is what Perry was doing. Attempting to justify these types of regulations. But that’s the problem Perry is facing. If he just wants to be anti-abortion then he can present these regulations as being directed specifically against abortion clinics without being part of any wider program. But Perry doesn’t want to narrow the focus down like that. He wants to maintain the fig leaf that his regulations were not designed to target abortion clinics. Which is putting him in the awkward position of having to defend government regulations in general. The equivalent would be if the Texas legislature had enacted a special tax on abortions and Perry was trying to defend it with the argument that he generally supports higher taxes. Which brings me back to my original question. Texas has enacted the regulations and the clinics have closed. The smart thing for a conservative to do now would be to never mention this subject again. A smart conservative would just maintain his general opposition to government regulation and keep silent about the time he used government regulations to shut down abortion clinics. But Perry didn’t do this. He apparently went out of his way to defend the regulations. So I’m trying to figure out if Perry has some subtler aim here or if he just screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/9 "2014-09-23T02:24:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …A **smart** conservative would just maintain his general opposition to government regulation and keep silent about the time he used government regulations to shut down abortion clinics. But **Perry** didn’t do this. He apparently went out of his way to defend the regulations. > … There’s your answer. You’re trying to apply “smart” to Rick Perry. Doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/10 "2014-09-23T02:42:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > exas has enacted the regulations and the clinics have closed. The smart thing for a conservative to do now would be to never mention this subject again. A smart conservative would just maintain his general opposition to government regulation and keep silent about the time he used government regulations to shut down abortion clinics. But Perry didn’t do this. He apparently went out of his way to defend the regulations. A judge recently halted the law, and Perry’s office is appealing the ruling, which is why he’s still talking about it, and still feels it necessary to stress the fiction that it isn’t meant as an anti-abortion measure. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/11 "2014-09-23T03:38:14Z")
So this whole Rivers issue really comes down to Roe versus Wade? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/12 "2014-09-23T03:56:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So this whole Rivers issue really comes down to Roe versus Wade? I spent like five minutes trying to come up with a post to respond to this, and this was the best I could do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/13 "2014-09-23T04:15:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So this whole Rivers issue really comes down to Roe versus Wade? Perry’s deciding if he’s going to get his feet wet for the 2016 election. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/14 "2014-09-23T10:56:59Z")
Gov. Perry’s sister is a VP of a company that stands to make a lot of money if the bill stays in effect. Here’s a short article from the [Houston Chronicle](http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2013/07/perrys-sister-an-advocate-for-ambulatory-surgical-centers/) on this, and a slightly longer article from the [Texas Observer](http://www.texasobserver.org/obamacare-jags-rick-perrys-lobbyist-sister/). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/15 "2014-09-23T12:57:12Z")
Don’t stop believin’. No, wait, that’s Steve Perry… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/16 "2014-09-23T13:36:39Z")
I don’t understand what you don’t understand. [QUOTE=Rick Perry] It was interesting that when Joan Rivers, and the procedure that she had done, where she died – that was a clinic. And I’m just – it’s a curious thought that if they had had that type of regulations in place, whether or not that individual would be still alive. [/QUOTE] He is wondering if Rivers might not have died, had her clinic had in place the same restrictions that were placed on Texas abortion clinics. Perry is hardly the first politician to use anecdotes to support a position. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/17 "2014-09-23T13:40:31Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > So if Joan had been in a hospital, she’d still be alive. **She** would, but what about the fetus?! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/18 "2014-09-23T13:43:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **She** would, but what about the fetus?! Melissa? She pulled through. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/19 "2014-09-23T13:43:51Z")
What was Joan Rivers doing having an abortion at her age? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286/20 "2014-09-23T14:40:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t understand what you don’t understand. > He is wondering if Rivers might not have died, had her clinic had in place the same restrictions that were placed on Texas abortion clinics. Even if it is a job killing burden on the job creators? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-somebody-explain-what-point-rick-perry-was-trying-to-make/699286.md?page=2)