# Can someone break down this whole Nunes Memo thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308 "2018-01-23T16:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/201 "2018-02-02T17:49:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not a huge deal in any event, but let’s see what the counter-memo has to offer. You mean other than the embarrassment that our government is now run by memos and counter memos? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/202 "2018-02-02T17:50:53Z")
One other thing I don’t get is this notion that the national security could be harmed by release of classified info in the memo. What might that be? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/203 "2018-02-02T17:51:01Z")
It turned out the memo was released to Fox News first. What a way to really establish credibility there, Devin and your fellow flying monkeys. Republican partisans will be bellowing: “SEEEE! We KNEW it! They bugged our campaign based on Hillary’s EEEEEVIL dossier!” People with multiple brain cells will be saying: “What the fuck? So this dossier provided justification for the warrant, along with a myriad of things that the Republicans are letting us see. What was all the fuss about?” How stupid do they think we are? So Nunes sees that the Steele dossier was part of the warrant renewal request, and he thinks that if he makes it look like that was the only thing it was based on, we’ll be outraged. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/204 "2018-02-02T17:53:56Z")
The memo even flat out states in item 5 that the investigation was initiated by the FBI investigation of Papadopolous. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/205 "2018-02-02T17:56:10Z")
That’s not what it says. (“an … investigation”, not “the investigation”) ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/206 "2018-02-02T17:58:13Z")
McCabe testified that that there would have been no FISA warrant in the absence of the dossier and it appears that Steele had personal as well as professional reasons to “find” dirt on Trump or his associates. No big news here but it confirms, if true, that the FBI misled the FISC to obtain the warrant. That alone is pretty scary since we are talking about surveillance based on nothing more than rumor. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/207 "2018-02-02T17:58:59Z")
I thing our president said it best when he ordered that burger with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/208 "2018-02-02T18:01:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’ve not seen the memo. But the reporting on the memo, citing people who have, indicates that the application did not disclose that the Steele dossier was from a guy who was specifically hired to do opposition research, and was not neutral information from a disinterested party. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why are you not telling people who paid to start the investigation; who was the opposition? Why are you covering up that fact? > [@Airbeck](#): > > Because it doesn’t fit into Trump’s insane narrative. > > Another thing that doesn’t fit is that the so called deep state conspirators (Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein and Wray) are all Republicans with Rosenstein and Wray being appointed by Trump himself, who are all supposedly biased in favor of Democrats? Yeah it really is that stupid. It’s scary how many people are so willing to swallow this swill just because it confirms their existing Republicans=Good, Democrats=Bad worldview. I’m interested in why **F-P** isn’t talking about it, tho. Go ahead, **F-P** : tell us who was “the opposition” who paid to start up what became the Steele dossier? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/209 "2018-02-02T18:01:53Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > McCabe testified that that there would have been no FISA warrant in the absence of the dossier and it appears that Steele had personal as well as professional reasons to “find” dirt on Trump or his associates. I don’t know how significant the first part is, because it’s not like the dossier was completely worthless just because it was done for partisan reasons, just that it wasn’t worth as much as if it had been done for non-partisan reasons. And I don’t see the second point at all. It’s not clear why Steele was desperate to block Trump’s election, and it could be for the very reason that he believed he was a Russian agent, in which case it wouldn’t be bias or “personal … reasons”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/210 "2018-02-02T18:03:11Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > and it appears that Steele had personal as well as professional reasons to “find” dirt on Trump or his associates Cite? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/211 "2018-02-02T18:03:28Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > McCabe testified that that there would have been no FISA warrant in the absence of the dossier and it appears that Steele had personal as well as professional reasons to “find” dirt on Trump or his associates. No big news here but it confirms, if true, that the FBI misled the FISC to obtain the warrant. That alone is pretty scary since we are talking about surveillance based on nothing more than rumor. The very memo we are talking about disputes this fact: [x.com](https://twitter.com/natashabertrand/status/959483512624766976) ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/212 "2018-02-02T18:06:38Z")
It’s patently clear Republicans love their party more than their country or democracy. How shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/213 "2018-02-02T18:07:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m interested in why **F-P** isn’t talking about it, tho. Go ahead, **F-P** : tell us who was “the opposition” who paid to start up what became the Steele dossier? Your point was stupid and I don’t address every stupid point people make, only some of them. Besides for the fact that the opposition who paid for the Steele research were exclusively Democrats, as Steele wasn’t brought in until after it became a Democratic project (and it would appear that your awkward wording “… who paid to start up what became …” was carefully designed to obscure this) it makes no difference which political opponents paid for it. What counts is whether the FBI, in pushing for the application, misled the judge about this for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/214 "2018-02-02T18:11:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What counts is whether the FBI, in pushing for the application, misled the judge about this for political reasons. I can’t see how this memo shines any light on alleged political bias at the FBI. Do you think it does? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/215 "2018-02-02T18:22:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What counts is whether the FBI, in pushing for the application, misled the judge about this for political reasons. What does this even mean? As I understand it the legal bar for a FISA warrant is probable cause. That’s a fairly low bar, and I don’t see where you’re getting the idea that disclosing a hypothetical political bias behind a source would make any legal or ethical difference, unless the source was so obviously biased that no reasonable investigator would take them seriously. Do you honestly think that’s the case here? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/216 "2018-02-02T18:23:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite? :dubious: The memo clearly states that Steele was being paid by Fusion and desparate that Trump not get elected. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/217 "2018-02-02T18:25:17Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > The very memo we are talking about disputes this fact: [x.com](https://twitter.com/natashabertrand/status/959483512624766976) Did she delete that tweet? I get a page not found error ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/218 "2018-02-02T18:25:43Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > The memo clearly states that Steele was being paid by Fusion and desparate that Trump not get elected. Well, so what? I quoted Trump campaign spokesmen who said in September that Carter Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign, never did, never will. It’s pretty hard to argue that the FBI is politically targeting the Trump campaign by looking at a guy who was fired a month before. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/219 "2018-02-02T18:26:13Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > What does this even mean? As I understand it the legal bar for a FISA warrant is probable cause. That’s a fairly low bar, and I don’t see where you’re getting the idea that disclosing a hypothetical political bias behind a source would make any legal or ethical difference, unless the source was so obviously biased that no reasonable investigator would take them seriously. Do you honestly think that’s the case here? I don’t think probable cause is such a low bar that it doesn’t make any difference “unless the source was so obviously biased that no reasonable investigator would take them seriously”. [I recall when Manafort was raided and many people here were chortling over the fact that if there was a warrant for that then there must have been some pretty solid evidence against him, because after all you need probable cause. I don’t recall anyone saying then “hey it might just be unverified thirdhand reports from biased sources because after all all you need is probable cause”.] ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/220 "2018-02-02T18:29:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know how significant the first part is, because it’s not like the dossier was completely worthless just because it was done for partisan reasons, just that it wasn’t worth as much as if it had been done for non-partisan reasons. > > And I don’t see the second point at all. It’s not clear why Steele was desperate to block Trump’s election, and it could be for the very reason that he believed he was a Russian agent, in which case it wouldn’t be bias or “personal … reasons”. I think the first part is significant if the FISC was not made aware of this fact. Opening a counter-intelligence operation based on oppo research is troubling. You make a good point about the second point that I had not considered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=12)