# Can someone break down this whole Nunes Memo thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308 "2018-01-23T16:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/61 "2018-01-30T05:31:37Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I saw a report that said the Committee voted unanimously to make the Dem “counter-memo” available to all House members (same as was done for the original memo). > > Is this incorrect? I don’t know. Why don’t you link us the report you saw? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/62 "2018-01-30T12:58:13Z")
So the Nunes (the same Nunes who ran to the White House and shared information on the investigation w/o consulting his Dem counterpart ) writes a memo. The Dems see it and say its slanted and missing pertinent information. The Pubs vote to release it but prevent the Dems from publically releasing their own memo that counters it. And the DOJ doesn’t want it released. Do I have this right? This whole thing is a disgrace and embarrassment. Is enough EVER going to be enough? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/63 "2018-01-30T14:21:06Z")
The point of all this is to keep inching “enough” ahead, bit by bit. If Trump had fired Robert Mueller last year, it might have ended in disaster for him. So they started up this “the FBI is corrupt” nonsense to get the base behind them. Now that all Trumpists are absolutely convinced the FBI is, indeed, corrupt, they will dismantle it and eventually fire Mueller, with GOP politicians feeling it’s now safe to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/64 "2018-01-30T15:37:11Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I saw a report that said the Committee voted unanimously to make the Dem “counter-memo” available to all House members (same as was done for the original memo). > > Is this incorrect? I can’t find anything about whether the House will be able to \*see \*the Democrat rebuttal memo. However, the public \*definitely \*won’t be able to see it. The Republicans voted to release the Republican-written memo that exonerates the Republican President… but also voted to prevent the Democrats from releasing their own version of the memo. But they might allow it in a week or so. You know, if the Democrats behave, or something. Honestly, that should really tell you everything you need to know about how honest they’re being about this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/65 "2018-01-30T15:50:00Z")
It’s almost like the stock market, how speculation fans the flames of ignorance around here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/66 "2018-01-30T16:01:10Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I can’t find anything about whether the House will be able to \*see \*the Democrat rebuttal memo. However, the public \*definitely \*won’t be able to see it. Sure we will. It will be leaked simultaneously with the public release of the Republican one, to permit compare ‘n’ contrast in the same news cycle. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/67 "2018-01-30T16:25:23Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m afraid we’re going to see the memo as a pretext to purge the DOJ and FBI of people that aren’t Trump loyalists. I think this is conspiracy-theory thinking, but if you’re determined to see that sort of thing: [FOX: Paul Ryan calls to ‘cleanse’ the FBI, backs surveillance memo release](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/30/paul-ryan-calls-to-cleanse-fbi-backs-surveillance-memo-release.html) > [@](#): > > House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government. > > “Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said. > > He added, “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency – for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/68 "2018-01-30T16:46:19Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > It’s almost like the stock market, how speculation fans the flames of ignorance around here. If you have comments about the board, those belong in ATMB. This drive by sniping is little removed from trolling so knock it off. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/69 "2018-01-30T16:49:41Z")
> [@HD](#): > > I think this is conspiracy-theory thinking, but if you’re determined to see that sort of thing: > > FOX: Paul Ryan calls to ‘cleanse’ the FBI, backs surveillance memo release > > Quote: > House Speaker Paul Ryan called Tuesday to “cleanse” the FBI as he openly backed the release of a controversial memo that purportedly details alleged surveillance abuses by the U.S. government. > > “Let it all out, get it all out there. Cleanse the organization,” Ryan, R-Wis., said. > > He added, “I think we should disclose all this stuff. It’s the best disinfectant. Accountability, transparency – for the sake of the reputation of our institutions.” Well, that seems reasonable. Make unsubstantiated claims of corruption for which the agency involved has no means to respond, and then demand reforms to address the corruption. No politics here. Nope. Not related to Mueller, nope. This is merely about defending the notable dolt, Carter Page, American (and Russian!) Hero. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/70 "2018-01-30T16:57:27Z")
So is the right arguing that if the FISA court had known that the underlying information supporting the continued surveillance of Carter Page was derived from someone on the Clinton campaign payroll it would have to deny the warrant and ordered the surveillance to end? What if the court did know and still ruled the request to be sufficient? Would they then claim that the judges, all of whom were appointed by Chief Justice Roberts, were also in on the conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/71 "2018-01-30T17:06:00Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > … What if the court did know and still ruled the request to be sufficient? Would they then claim that the judges, all of whom were appointed by Chief Justice Roberts, were also in on the conspiracy? I don’t think we can reasonably know what “the right” would argue in your hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/72 "2018-01-30T17:11:42Z")
Well, you’re a part of it. What would your opinion be? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/73 "2018-01-30T17:18:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, you’re a part of it. What would your opinion be? It’s a scenario that’s a bit too far-fetched for me to properly put myself in that frame of mind, so I have a hard time guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/74 "2018-01-30T17:20:34Z")
It’s a pointlessly hypothetical question. That’s not what’s being alleged. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/75 "2018-01-30T17:20:44Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > So is the right arguing that if the FISA court had known that the underlying information supporting the continued surveillance of Carter Page was derived from someone on the Clinton campaign payroll it would have to deny the warrant and ordered the surveillance to end? What if the court did know and still ruled the request to be sufficient? Would they then claim that the judges, all of whom were appointed by Chief Justice Roberts, were also in on the conspiracy? Remember, _none_ of the House Committee members who voted to release the memo, including Devin Nunes, read any of the classified material that supported the FISA warrant renewal. The fact that the memo is less than 5 pages long indicates how cherry-picked the information is, since FISA warrant applications tend to run to 60 pages or more. The House Committee is so interested in transparency, they won’t even let Republican Richard Burr, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, read the memo. Adam Schiff has read the underlying classified material. He and others who have read it all say it’s a perfectly routine application for renewal of a FISA warrant. In the interests of transparency, Schiff has also called for the release of a transcript of the House Committee’s meeting yesterday, which he believes will reveal the lunacy of the discussions around release of the Nunes memo. The House Committee majority is scuffing their toes in the dirt on doing that. Said they might, but haven’t. You know; transparency. It’s worth noting that Carter Page is confirmed to be a Russian tool, wittingly or otherwise, since 2014. In a normal world, this is usually something to keep an eye on in the interests of national security. Guess that’s not important anymore, so long as Trump is protected. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/76 "2018-01-30T17:30:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s a scenario that’s a bit too far-fetched for me to properly put myself in that frame of mind, so I have a hard time guessing. This is the standard Trumpist response; “oh, that won’t happen,” and then when it does, it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/77 "2018-01-30T17:31:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is the standard Trumpist response; “oh, that won’t happen,” and then when it does, it’s okay. Feel free to point me back to this exchange if we get some hard evidence that **sciurophobic** ’s hypothetical reflected reality. AFAICT, it does not today. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/78 "2018-01-30T17:37:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The point of all this is to keep inching “enough” ahead, bit by bit. > > If Trump had fired Robert Mueller last year, it might have ended in disaster for him. So they started up this “the FBI is corrupt” nonsense to get the base behind them. Now that all Trumpists are absolutely convinced the FBI is, indeed, corrupt, they will dismantle it and eventually fire Mueller, with GOP politicians feeling it’s now safe to do so. But Trumpists, by definition, would’ve been okay with a purge last year or any other time. They didn’t need to bother with an excuse for them, especially since they’ve already been screaming witch hunt since day one. Anyway, I’m not 100% sure that they’ll find a “dismantling” all that easy. Maybe it will be, but I’m skeptical for now. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/79 "2018-01-30T17:45:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s a pointlessly hypothetical question. That’s not what’s being alleged. Yes it is. From [Newsweek](The memo’s main gripe is that officials within the FBI and DOJ did not inform the intelligence court judge from whom they sought approval of the warrant that some of the information used to justify it came from the now infamous dossier that alleged years of collusion between Trump and the Kremlin.) > [@](#): > > The memo’s main gripe is that officials within the FBI and DOJ did not inform the intelligence court judge from whom they sought approval of the warrant that some of the information used to justify it came from the now infamous dossier that alleged years of collusion between Trump and the Kremlin. Implicit in this is that if the court had been fully informed it would have ruled differently. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/80 "2018-01-30T17:46:23Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > America: GOP Coup 2018. We had a good run, I guess. Typically, isn’t a coup undertaken in order to throw those in power out? It would seem … counterproductive for the GOP to undertake a coup at this particular time in history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=5)