# Can someone break down this whole Nunes Memo thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308 "2018-01-23T16:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/141 "2018-02-01T02:41:52Z")
Review of the House Intelligence transcript from the vote to release: > **[It Was Worse than You Think: The House Intelligence Meeting on the Nunes Memo](https://www.lawfareblog.com/it-was-worse-you-think-house-intelligence-meeting-nunes-memo)** > > On Monday, Jan. 29, the House Intelligence Committee convened to vote on whether to release to the public the much-discussed memo on alleged surveillance abuses prepared by Committee Chairman Devin Nunes. As we now know, the committee’s... Given that the Republican party itself doesn’t seem to agree much with the release, and the members of the Committee don’t seem too willing to defend it either, one does wonder what levers are being applied behind the scenes? The White House doesn’t seem to have that much swing. Trump’s support of ol’ Grabby Hands in Alabama didn’t seem to help him at all, nor Trump’s support for Luther Strange before him. It seems unlikely that Russia would have blackmail material on every Republican in the House Intelligence Committee. It seems unlikely that Nunes would command such loyalty from those below him. All I can think of is that someone big, like the Mercers, have gotten involved in trying to hamstring the investigation. Conceivably, the memo is a direct result of the UKIP, Nigel Farage, Cambridge Analytica, Russia, WikiLeaks conspiracy theory that Simpson was selling. I’m not sure I’m willing to go down that road quite yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/142 "2018-02-01T02:50:13Z")
That memo is looking more and more dubious as time goes on. In particular the Wray statement. I think the best you can hope for - “best”, being from the perspective of someone who wants the memo to be meaningful - is that it has _something_ in it of value and interest. But the likelihood that the memo will be something that can be taken at face value seems very low. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/143 "2018-02-01T02:51:46Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Review of the House Intelligence transcript from the vote to release: > > [It Was Worse than You Think: The House Intelligence Meeting on the Nunes Memo | Lawfare](https://www.lawfareblog.com/it-was-worse-you-think-house-intelligence-meeting-nunes-memo) > > Given that the Republican party itself doesn’t seem to agree much with the release, and the members of the Committee don’t seem too willing to defend it either, one does wonder what levers are being applied behind the scenes? > > The White House doesn’t seem to have that much swing. Trump’s support of ol’ Grabby Hands in Alabama didn’t seem to help him at all, nor Trump’s support for Luther Strange before him. > > It seems unlikely that Russia would have blackmail material on every Republican in the House Intelligence Committee. > > It seems unlikely that Nunes would command such loyalty from those below him. > > All I can think of is that someone big, like the Mercers, have gotten involved in trying to hamstring the investigation. Conceivably, the memo is a direct result of the UKIP, Nigel Farage, Cambridge Analytica, Russia, WikiLeaks conspiracy theory that Simpson was selling. > > I’m not sure I’m willing to go down that road quite yet. Oh, I’ll go down that road: it’s entirely possible that some trail in the Russia investigation, if not an actual road, leads to the Mercers. “Possible”. No idea of likelihood. And no idea what kind of road or trail it might be, except that it prolly involves money because that’s what the Mercers are all about: money. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/144 "2018-02-01T03:23:52Z")
Nunes altered the memo between the time it left committee and the time that it got to the White House, according to [Adam Schiff.](https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/958897790469464064) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/145 "2018-02-01T03:31:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Nunes altered the memo between the time it left committee and the time that it got to the White House, according to [Adam Schiff.](https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/958897790469464064) 50 quatloos says that by noon tomorrow, someone is saying that “it doesn’t matter because the Majority approved of what was sent, so who gives a fuck what the Dems think; rules are for losers” or something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/146 "2018-02-01T05:07:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > 50 quatloos says that by noon tomorrow, someone is saying that “it doesn’t matter because the Majority approved of what was sent, so who gives a fuck what the Dems think; rules are for losers” or something to that effect. Nunes said “some of the edits were just grammatical, no big deal.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/147 "2018-02-01T07:15:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That memo is looking more and more dubious as time goes on. In particular the Wray statement. > > I think the best you can hope for - “best”, being from the perspective of someone who wants the memo to be meaningful - is that it has _something_ in it of value and interest. But the likelihood that the memo will be something that can be taken at face value seems very low. Given the extremity of the “secret society” distortion of Strzok’s one text, I’m not too hopeful. It sounds like everything in it will be true in a “technical” sense, just as it’s true that Strzok mentioned a secret society, but not true in a way that anyone could reasonably take at any value without a lot more information. It there is one thing true in it, who is to know which but that is without having access to the raw, underlying sources? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/148 "2018-02-01T10:07:33Z")
Speaking of using leverage to force the group to vote for the memo, I do note that it’s immediately following that vote that Trey Gowdy decided to leave. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, of course, but it’s curious. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/149 "2018-02-01T12:01:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Speaking of using leverage to force the group to vote for the memo, I do note that it’s immediately following that vote that Trey Gowdy decided to leave. > > Correlation doesn’t equal causation, of course, but it’s curious. Worth noting that Gowdy used to be a federal prosecutor. Maybe he has a hard time stabbing the very agency he used to position himself for public office in the back. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/150 "2018-02-01T12:46:12Z")
Or more likely he has his eye on a different job. Not everything centers on the topic-for-today. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/151 "2018-02-01T13:26:18Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Apologies for continuing the thread hijack, and at the risk of identifying myself as someone that just _doesn’t get_ conservative humor, but considering Joe Kennedy III is from the “Robert Kennedy” side of the family, and not the “Ted Kennedy” side, how is this even funny? > > Makes about as much sense as a Benghazi joke involving George Clinton. I didn’t know there were different sides, and I found it funny. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/152 "2018-02-01T13:35:47Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Nunes has shown the memo to authorized members of Congress, some of whom are cleared to review the underlying classified information that supports the FISA renewal application. > > Trump intends to declassify the information in order to release the memo – which is why Wray and Rosenstein are so upset. They are worried the declassification will reveal tactics and methods used by the FBI, compromising their operations. > > Trump appears unconcerned. This doesn’t explain how anyone knew what was in the application for the FISA order. I’ve applied for countless search warrants. The application itself, with all of the probable cause, was sealed and not available to anyone until an indictment was returned. I understand that some members of Congress may be cleared to see the information the application was based on. But how do they know what part of that information was (or was not, as the case may be) included in the application? You have to know what the application contained to make a stink about what was omitted. Is there something fundamentally different about FISA warrants/orders? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/153 "2018-02-01T13:46:55Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > This doesn’t explain how anyone knew what was in the application for the FISA order. I’ve applied for countless search warrants. The application itself, with all of the probable cause, was sealed and not available to anyone until an indictment was returned. I understand that some members of Congress may be cleared to see the information the application was based on. But how do they know what part of that information was (or was not, as the case may be) included in the application? You have to know what the application contained to make a stink about what was omitted. Is there something fundamentally different about FISA warrants/orders? This is speculation here, but it seems plausible that the details of FISA warrant applications may have been shown to the so-called “Gang of Eight” [(link)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Eight_(intelligence)) which receive the most sensitive intelligence briefings, and of which Nunes is a part. Nunes then cherry-picks parts of that warrant that support his case, while the FBI is saying that it cannot fight back against the cherry-picking without risking other very sensitive intelligence sources and methods. It would also explain why it is frequently said that most House members cannot see the underlying intelligence, since only eight members of the House and Senate combined are allowed access to such sensitive matters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/154 "2018-02-01T17:58:24Z")
A brilliant and insightful take on the latest…by way of our good friends at _Crooks and Liars_… > **[Devin Nunes' 'Memo' Will Never, Ever See The Light Of Day](https://crooksandliars.com/2018/02/devin-nunes-memo-will-never-ever-see-light)** > > Most recent reports say the White House is sending the infamous distraction package back to Nunes for 'redactions.' **Devin Nunes’ ‘Memo’ Will Never, Ever See The Light Of Day** > [@](#): > > From the beginning, I’ve been saying that the infamous Memo of Mass Distraction will not see the light of day and now we have confirmation. > > This memo was never, ever intended for public consumption. It is and always has been a distraction, and it will not be released by the White House or the House Intelligence Committee. > > The value of “the memo” is its secrecy. As long as it’s opaque, claims of “deep state interference” and horrible acts on the part of the FBI can be claimed without any substantiation. The point isn’t to expose anything, it’s to stoke people’s deepest fears about law enforcement and the intelligence committee in order to discredit them… This reflects the view offered by one of our more brilliant and perceptive posters, and may therefore be taken as Gospel. Modesty forbids any further identification. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/155 "2018-02-01T18:16:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Devin Nunes’ ‘Memo’ Will Never, Ever See The Light Of Day** There is some anecdotal evidence for the “Power of Positive Thinking.” Then there’s the whole [Escalation of Commitment thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/156 "2018-02-01T18:22:20Z")
Why don’t you just say what it is that you want to say? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/157 "2018-02-01T18:28:20Z")
His point is classified. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/158 "2018-02-01T18:43:18Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why don’t you just say what it is that you want to say? Plausible deniability. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/159 "2018-02-01T18:51:06Z")
Deniable plausibility. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308/160 "2018-02-01T19:01:50Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > This doesn’t explain how anyone knew what was in the application for the FISA order. I’ve applied for countless search warrants. The application itself, with all of the probable cause, was sealed and not available to anyone until an indictment was returned. I understand that some members of Congress may be cleared to see the information the application was based on. But how do they know what part of that information was (or was not, as the case may be) included in the application? You have to know what the application contained to make a stink about what was omitted. Is there something fundamentally different about FISA warrants/orders? **Ravenman** has got it. Adam Schiff is a member of the Gang of Eight, and as such, he has legal access to the classified information. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Richard Burr and others also have such access – but they have not been allowed to see the Nunes memo. Schiff publicly stated he has reviewed all the underlying classified information that supports the renewal of the FISA warrant that is the subject of the Nunes memo. He has also reviewed the memo. Based on those two reviews, he does have actual knowledge about what is misleading in the memo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-break-down-this-whole-nunes-memo-thing/807308.md?page=9)