# Can someone convert me, please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266 "2000-09-15T03:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Joachim\_Pieper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Joachim\_Pieper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joachim_Pieper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/61 "2000-09-19T06:52:07Z")
Oh, one more thing, for Quicksilver. Can one word be tautological, or do you need two, to “say something twice over, in different words”? Just a thought… ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/62 "2000-09-19T14:12:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joachim Pieper \* > Quicksilver, you lost me in that last post. You said “Faith does not defy proof, there are examples of faith all around us”, but oddly enough not too much proof. Well, lets make it simple. From Merriam Webster Dictionary: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **faith** > Pronunciation: 'fAth > Function: noun > Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/ > Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust – more at BIDE > Date: 13th century > 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one’s promises (2) : sincerity of intentions > 2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : **firm belief in something for which there is no proof** (2) : complete trust > 3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs Thus I stand by my original statement. _Faith does not defy proof_. It is the objects of one’s faith that become a little tricky to prove. So jmullaney has faith, as does Joe and Gloria and many other people contributing to this board whom you’ve not yet had the pleasure to meet. > [@](#): > > We’ve got one, not the other, is it unreasonable to suggest that if the existence of God were to be proven, then lots of Christians would be at a loss. Lots of atheists would be at a loss as well… but I don’t recall suggesting any such thing. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to do any work to prove that epistemology is tautological. You brought it up, you prove it. I’m sorry to hear that. I suggest that this is intellectually lazy of you. Furthermore, I don’t need to prove to you something I understand to be true. If you disagree with my statement then the burden to show its falsehood is on you. If you do not disagree, then we can drop the subject. > [@](#): > > Ask everyone else to disprove it is not my idea of making a point. I didn’t ask everyone else. I asked you. > [@](#): > > And anyway, why does it matter, why do you bring it up? I bring it up to illustrate that the ground you stand on is not as solid as you may believe. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/63 "2000-09-19T14:19:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joachim Pieper \* > Oh, one more thing, for Quicksilver. Can one word be tautological, or do you need two, to “say something twice over, in different words”? Just a thought… Ummm… I’m not sure I understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/64 "2000-09-19T16:47:33Z")
Yes, **Joachim Pieper** – it is possible to be humble (i.e. reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission, or ranking low in a hierarchy or scale) without believing in God – so I should say belief in God is a requirement of being humble _and_ being free at the same time. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QuickSilver \* > So jmullaney has faith I should point out, as a disclaimer, that I have faith that there is a God, however, I do not have “belief and trust in and loyalty to God” which I understand to be the definition of faith of which the Bible speaks. I rely on worldly things for my survival, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![gloria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b38774/32.png) [@gloria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gloria)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/65 "2000-09-19T21:56:06Z")
Joachim I think that finally we came to the medular spine of this discussion, yes Sister Teresa was a by-word of Christian love, and she was a true Christian, can you imagine what will happen if everybody had the same faith as her, if we could be by-word Christians or by-word Thaoist or by-word… this will be a beautiful, beautiful world, as I told you I respect all religions and all churches, but I do agree that churches are integrated by human beings, and that is where the problem is, not in churches, they are institution, unfaithfull people are not on an specific churc, not everybody has the same faith, and most don´t go by word, so I do believe that is a problem of faith, big masters have been those with strong faith, no hesitation on their believes, you can see and analize, Mahomma, Gandhi, Buda, and some others that made humanity stop and reflex on its existance, that is why sacred books, not only Catholic or Christians or Muslims are still guidance for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![gloria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b38774/32.png) [@gloria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gloria)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2000, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266/66 "2000-09-19T22:07:20Z")
Joachim I think that finally we came to the medular spine of this discussion, yes Sister Teresa was a by-word of Christian love, and she was a true Christian, can you imagine what will happen if everybody had the same faith as her, if we could be by-word Christians or by-word Thaoist or by-word… this will be a beautiful, beautiful world, as I told you I respect all religions and all churches, but I do agree that churches are integrated by human beings, and that is where the problem is, not in churches, they are institution, unfaithfull people are not on an specific church, not everybody has the same faith, and most don´t go by word, so I do believe that is a problem of faith, big masters have been those with strong faith, no hesitation on their believes, you can see and analize, Mahomma, Gandhi, Buda, Mother Teresa and some others that made humanity stop and reflex on its existance, that is why sacred books, not only Catholic or Christians or Muslims are still guidance for humanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-convert-me-please/33266.md?page=3)