# Can someone define "Cultural Marxism" Please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262 "2011-07-25T13:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/201 "2013-01-04T03:01:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Perhaps you could try explaining some of **wildorchid** ’s errors instead? That’s a wearying challenge. Too many of them fall under the [Not Even Wrong](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) category and the rest exemplify [Fractal Wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/202 "2013-01-04T03:24:41Z")
"Churnin’ out that boogaloo … Socrates and Milhous Nixon Both went the same way through the kitchen …" ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/203 "2013-01-04T09:57:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Indeed. But, Aristotle was a very energetic but a very **bad** philosopher. You would do far better to study Bertrand Russell (a socialist, BTW, and not by accident, though he had very little respect for Marx). Start with his _History of Western Philosophy._ Sorry, but no. Aristotle was a superb philosopher, and I say this despite deep disagreements with the traditions he initiated. Furthermore, Russell’s _History_ is perhaps the worst such work ever written by a major figure, and is of little value in trying to understand the history of philosophy. His accounts of philosophers with whom he disagrees are embarrassingly inaccurate and uncharitable, and serve only to delineate the limits of his own thinking. This is not to denigrate his own positive contributions, the complete failure of logicism notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/204 "2013-01-04T22:50:58Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > Furthermore, Russell’s _History_ is perhaps the worst such work ever written by a major figure, and is of little value in trying to understand the history of philosophy. Can you recommend a better one? ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/205 "2013-01-05T00:02:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you recommend a better one? Histories of philosophy written by one person are dangerous things, and not nearly as helpful as one would like them to be, as there is always the human tendency to treat disparate ideas tendentiously in the effort to provide a unified narrative. Russell is an extreme example. Heidegger probably had as deep an understanding of the history of philosophy as anyone who has ever lived, but since his philosophic narrative is so deeply imbedded in his own philosophic project, extracting that narrative becomes as wearying a task as attempting to sit still while watching **wildorchid** attempt to blossom. A better approach, I think, is to read different critical accounts of different periods in the history of philosophy by people who are experts in that area–just as you probably wouldn’t want to read a history of the world by one person, but would likely rather read different accounts of different historical periods by different people. Division of labor is important, and since there is a finite amount of energy one can put into any work, trade offs are necessary. A comprehensive view is only approachable, I think, through the eyes/minds of different people, and even then only asymptotically (of course). You get the idea. What areas interest you most? If you want to start with the pre-Socratics, Barnes’ book is excellent, although not as accessible as, say, Wheelwright’s book. ---
**Author:** ![wildorchid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@wildorchid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wildorchid)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/206 "2013-01-06T03:32:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s a wearying challenge. Too many of them fall under the [Not Even Wrong](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) category and the rest exemplify [Fractal Wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) its the other way around. give examples to support your claims, and correct me, then. so far, ive heard so many fallacious arguments from you, i’m dizzied. weak attack the messenger bush league stuff, man. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/207 "2013-01-06T03:55:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Perhaps you could try explaining some of **wildorchid** ’s errors instead? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s a wearying challenge. Too many of them fall under the [Not Even Wrong](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) category and the rest exemplify [Fractal Wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) > [@wildorchid](#): > > its the other way around. I stand corrected: Too many of your errors fall under the [Fractal Wrongness](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) category and the rest exemplify [Not Even Wrong.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) He makes it so **easy**. . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/208 "2013-01-06T04:04:13Z")
Since this “Cultural Marxism” is supposed to have something-or-other to do with the [New Left](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_Left) of the 1960s, let’s take a closer look at that: > [@](#): > > The **New Left** [1] was a collection of leftist groups in the US and UK that sprang up in the early 1960s as a reaction to the timidity of liberalism on racial equality and the opposition to the War in Vietnam and against the thoroughly discredited and powerless “Old Left” of the Communist Party USA and its various Trotskyist enemies. Rather than focus on just the material aspects of capitalism, and attempting to work through labor unions to achieve revolution by the masses, the “New Left” focused on the young (particularly college students) in order to cause a full system change all around. The New Left also focused more heavily on the problems of imperialism than did the Old Left. > > **Influences** > > Generational change marked by the predisposition of youth to challenge authority on moral terms was exacerbated by the large numbers of youth entering institutions of higher education.[2] (The rebellion even began to spread to high schools.)[3] There they encountered both older conservative and more recent liberal accounts of history and social science that failed to adequately explain national and world events. The timidity of the liberal response to racial oppression and imperialist violence motivated a search for explanation in the heady post-war fusion of Marxism and Freudianism favored by leftist intellectuals in the West. It also led to a preference for action over reflection. Consider the following rant by Yippie leader Abbie Hoffman: > > > [@](#): > > > > “Once one has experienced LSD, existential revolution, fought the intellectual game-playing of the individual in society, of one’s identity, one realizes that action is the only reality; not only reality but morality as well. It exists in the head. I am the Revolution.”[4]. > > Orthodox Soviet style Marxism-Leninism held no attraction for Western radicals. The Soviet Union had lost its moral legitimacy in the advanced industrial countries, even among leftists, after the crimes of Stalin had been published, some in the New Left went looking for a more “pure” form of Communism. The 1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia that put an end to the “Prague Spring” reinforced the alienation from Moscow. > > Inspiration, or at least the imagery of mass rebellion, was found in the work of the new, non-Western Communists, like Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Mao Zedong, and Ho Chi Minh.[5]. As great leaders who had thrown off the shackles of Western colonialism, their images would become icons for those who opposed capitalism and Western imperialism in general.[6] > > On a more philosophical level, the works of Herbert Marcuse, especially _One Dimensional Man,_ were particularly important. Marcuse criticized the socially alienating effects of modern capitalism incorporating Marxism with Freud and critical theory in a way which the Old Left had not done. He extended this critique also to identifying the same social alienation under Soviet communism, and in the place of the stodgy “industrial proletariat” he championed an oppositional culture led by youth, minorities and the intelligentsia. Another important influence was Growing Up Absurd by Paul Goodman, a 1960 book about the alienation of growing up in a society geared mainly toward consumerism and preparing people for a life of meaningless and unfulfilling jobs. Goodman attributed the rise of both juvenile delinquency and the Beat Generation to a youthful rebellion against this. Also influential were Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert Camus; both had been part of the anti-Nazi resistance in France, Camus as an anarchist, while Sartre was considered a “fellow traveler” with the French Communist Party but did not join. Both continued to support leftist causes but turned toward developing the philosophy which would come to be labeled existentialism. Now, by Og! Whatever all of **that** might have portended, LSD- inspired “existential revolution” never could have portended the totalitarian collectivist dictatorship that **wildorchid** so fears! And so it proved in the event: > [@](#): > > **Impact of the New Left** > > The New Left contributed its own imagery of popular revolt. What else did it leave? Rather than bringing the Vietnam War to an end sooner the reaction mobilized against it by the powerful conservative and liberal enemies it made helped to divert public attention from the tragedy of the war. However the war dragged on because it never emerged as the primary issue in a U.S. presidential election campaign. Most of the major civil rights victories are attributable to mainstream civil rights groups like the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. SNCC provides the exception to the rule. Unfortunately thereafter the mainstream civil rights groups stagnated. > > Capitalism itself was never clearly in jeopardy from the critiques of the New Left. > > Probably the biggest impact came out of a movement that formed due to the mistakes of the New Left. The second wave of feminism, or “Women’s Liberation”, was spawned in large part because of the sexism within SDS and SNCC.[19] Despite a great deal of rhetoric concerning “equality”, women in these groups found themselves repeatedly denigrated, and forced into domestic roles. This was especially galling in SDS, because many of the most successful ventures (particularly in the community organizing arms) were led and run by women. As women became fed up with being second class even in the revolution, they left and founded their own far more successful movement, which really helped to change the face of American society. > > However, many conservatives act as if the New Left somehow managed to take control of the whole country. For instance, this book tries to make the case that US cities are failing because the New Left managed to take control of the public services and unions, and that these things are bankrupting the country today.[20] Another example of this is the “documentary” Generation Zero which purports that old members of the “New Left” secretly engineered the financial crisis to create global socialism. That none of this makes sense doesn’t stop people holding the New Left up as current dangers. So, the New Left on sum and balance was not at all a bad thing for American society and culture; it did no real damage, and at least we got feminism out of it, however indirectly. And now it’s as much a thing of the past as Woodstock, and no threat to anybody or anything anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/209 "2013-01-06T23:02:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you recommend a better one? **Sophie’s World** \ ---
**Author:** ![aBystander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@aBystander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aBystander)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/210 "2013-10-07T02:57:48Z")
This is a good explanation of what Cultural Marxism is. [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rlE3SCBXE) Cultural Marxism does exist. As a society we try to redistribute social power through institutions, the media, and less obviously, changing words to obscure their real meanings and connotations. Whether or not Cultural Marxism is a good thing or not I don’t know. (Opinions?) But I don’t write of off as a phrase uttered with an obtuse meaning by far right demagogues - it is a real thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/211 "2013-10-07T02:59:09Z")
> [@aBystander](#): > > Whether or not Cultural Marxism is a good thing or not I don’t know. (Opinions?) You’re just asking questions? ---
**Author:** ![knel3030](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecae2f/32.png) [@knel3030](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knel3030)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/212 "2013-10-07T09:52:17Z")
Ive never really understood what the term cultural marxism was supposed to mean, and now, having read this entire thread, im more confused - although the confusion now has little pockets of coherency. But, since culture and marxism are joined in the same term, I will now do the safe patriotic thing and commit myself to a lifestyle of aculturalism. _stares at the wall and drools_ ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/213 "2013-10-07T10:23:49Z")
> [@aBystander](#): > > This is a good explanation of what Cultural Marxism is. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rlE3SCBXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rlE3SCBXE) > > Cultural Marxism does exist. As a society we try to redistribute social power through institutions, the media, and less obviously, changing words to obscure their real meanings and connotations. > > Whether or not Cultural Marxism is a good thing or not I don’t know. (Opinions?) But I don’t write of off as a phrase uttered with an obtuse meaning by far right demagogues - it is a real thing. _meh_ Cultural Marxism was better explained in [this post at the beginning of the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14061440#post14061440). As to the claim that “Cultural Marxism” is some sort of active attempt to shape society by changing language–clearly the idea behind that odd video–it is silly. Everyone attempts to shape culture through language, lefties, righties, centrists, people out in the corn field. Some efforts succeed. Some efforts fail. The claims of the video, like claims of people who pretend that there is some great conspiracy behind “Political Correctness,” are generally nonsense in which someone who wishes to use language to continue to use hateful names to keep various groups subservient is upset that the effort has failed as insulting language is made more taboo in society. Sure Cultural Marxism exists–as an academic exercise, not as a real life movement that is subverting society. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/214 "2013-10-07T14:16:40Z")
> [@aBystander](#): > > This is a good explanation of what Cultural Marxism is. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rlE3SCBXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3rlE3SCBXE) Anything purporting to be “a good explanation” that links to a video will almost certainly not be. For some reason, crackpots love the camera. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/215 "2013-10-07T15:29:28Z")
> [@aBystander](#): > > As a society we try to redistribute social power . . . A notion going back to the Founding Fathers. “In every political society, parties are unavoidable. A difference of interests, real or supposed, is the most natural and fruitful source of them. The great object should be to combat the evil: 1. By establishing a political equality among all. 2. By withholding unnecessary opportunities from a few, to increase the inequality of property, by an immoderate, and especially an unmerited, accumulation of riches. **3. By the silent operation of laws, which, without violating the rights of property, reduce extreme wealth towards a state of mediocrity, and raise extreme indigence towards a state of comfort.** 4. By abstaining from measures which operate differently on different interests, and particularly such as favor one interest at the expence of another. 5. By making one party a check on the other, so far as the existence of parties cannot be prevented, nor their views accommodated. If this is not the language of reason, it is that of republicanism.” – [James Madison](http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch15s50.html) “Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual.” --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. “Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.” --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/216 "2013-10-07T15:32:30Z")
> [@aBystander](#): > > Whether or not Cultural Marxism is a good thing or not I don’t know. (Opinions?) But I don’t write of off as a phrase uttered with an obtuse meaning by far right demagogues - it is a real thing. It is, or was, but it never was what you seem to think it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262.md?page=10)