# Can someone define "Cultural Marxism" Please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262 "2011-07-25T13:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/61 "2011-07-31T22:03:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you wish to claim that you are merely sick, I will let you, but I will also note that xenophobia is rather commonly attributed to the Koreans and Japanese. That you claim to be unaware of that fact simply indicates that you are not nearly as informed about the world as you have pretended in these threads. (As noted by others, Israel does not really fit into your fantasies.) I think he was being facetious. He’s constantly harping on why Japan, Korea and Israel (specifically) get a “pass” on being xenophobic. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/62 "2011-08-01T00:27:38Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > Furthermore you’ve promoted this conspiracy theory of Cultural Marxism on these very boards It is not a conspiracy. Traditional economic Marxist theory is about capitalism that creates a society where the power relationship between the upper class and working class are out of balance, which in turn creates social problems. Cultural Marxism deals instead with other types of power relationships, for instance the power relationship between Europeans and non-Europeans. In cultural Marxism, non-Europeans are always “the good guys” just like the working class are always “the good guys” in traditional Marxism. BrainGlutton showed “Cultural Marxist”-tendencies in a mini-debate with me a while ago: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/63 "2011-08-01T00:29:50Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > It is not a conspiracy. Traditional economic Marxist theory is about capitalism that creates a society where the power relationship between the upper class and working class are out of balance, which in turn creates social problems. Cultural Marxism deals instead with other types of power relationships, for instance the power relationship between Europeans and non-Europeans. In cultural Marxism, non-Europeans are always “the good guys” just like the working class are always “the good guys” in traditional Marxism. > > BrainGlutton showed “Cultural Marxist”-tendencies in a mini-debate with me a while ago: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68) And, [like I said,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14006447&postcount=70) you don’t need any Marxism to see what’s there. ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/64 "2011-08-01T00:32:07Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > It is not a conspiracy. Traditional economic Marxist theory is about capitalism that creates a society where the power relationship between the upper class and working class are out of balance, which in turn creates social problems. Cultural Marxism deals instead with other types of power relationships, for instance the power relationship between Europeans and non-Europeans. In cultural Marxism, non-Europeans are always “the good guys” just like the working class are always “the good guys” in traditional Marxism. > > BrainGlutton showed “Cultural Marxist”-tendencies in a mini-debate with me a while ago: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14004138&postcount=48) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14005853&postcount=68) The Frankfurt School -\> ? -\> The norm of “tolerance” in modern society Fill in the blank, then we’ll take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/65 "2011-08-01T21:51:28Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > The Frankfurt School -\> ? -\> The norm of “tolerance” in modern society > > Fill in the blank, then we’ll take you seriously. In the 50s, the ideas of the Frankfurt School were repacked in ways college students could read and comprehend. In the 60s, the time was ripe for revolution. Herbert Marcuse became the chief guru of the New Left, and he injected cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now USA’s state ideology. The thing I just can’t understand is how those crappy ideas could end up in American college and school books. Same thing with the proven fallacies by Lewontin and Gould that were used to undermine European identities. They must have had pretty good connections of some sort. > **[Human Genetic Diversity: Lewontin's Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy)** > > "Human Genetic Diversity: Lewontin's Fallacy" is a 2003 paper by A. W. F. Edwards in the journal BioEssays. He criticises an argument first made in Richard Lewontin's 1972 article "The Apportionment of Human Diversity", that the practice of dividing humanity into races is taxonomically invalid because any given individual will often have more in common genetically with members of other population groups than with members of their own. Edwards argued that this does not refute the biological Edwar... [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/science/14skull.html?\_r=2&ref=science](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/science/14skull.html?_r=2&ref=science) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/66 "2011-08-01T22:14:07Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > In the 50s, the ideas of the Frankfurt School were repacked in ways college students could read and comprehend. In the 60s, the time was ripe for revolution. Herbert Marcuse became the chief guru of the New Left, and he injected cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now USA’s state ideology. :rolleyes: America is a rabidly, self destructively right wing country where the Left is nearly dead. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/67 "2011-08-01T23:34:18Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I’m hearing this term thrown around lately from a few of our posters but I cannot seem to find anything that actually describes what this term actually means at all. The Wiki on it merely alludes to applying Marxist economic principles to culture, which really makes no sense. Help anyone? > > Started in GD because of content, Mods please move if appropriate. In a cultural Marxist “democracy”, there are seemingly free elections and free speech, but politics and mass media are dominated by an establishment that believes that only certain expressions of opinion should be allowed. As a consequence, citizens are living with the _illusion_ that they receive an objective and comprehensive view of reality. The opinion oppression is well hidden, the free debate strangled. All new parties that reject cultural Marxism are easily outmaneuvered by accusations of xenophobia/racism/fascism. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/68 "2011-08-01T23:46:42Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > All new parties that reject cultural Marxism are easily outmaneuvered by accusations of xenophobia/racism/fascism. And you have an example of this? Or do you simply join Der Trihs in asserting your personal beliefs? What actual discussion has been suppressed (or outmaneuvered) in the U.S. or Europe? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/69 "2011-08-01T23:47:50Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > As a consequence, citizens are living with the _illusion_ that they receive an objective and comprehensive view of reality. …but enough about Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/70 "2011-08-01T23:51:02Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > In a cultural Marxist “democracy”, there are seemingly free elections and free speech, but politics and mass media are dominated by an establishment that believes that only certain expressions of opinion should be allowed. Your [Sweden Democrats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats) have 20 seats out of 349 in the Riksdag, and you’re fooling yourself if you think they would get more if Sweden had no hate-speech laws or media inattention-to-them or whatever it is you’re on about. If that’s a “cultural Marxist ‘democracy,’” then “cultural Marxist ‘democracy’” is simply another name for “democracy.” > [@RaleighRally](#): > > As a consequence, citizens are living with the _illusion_ that they receive an objective and comprehensive view of reality. The opinion oppression is well hidden, the free debate strangled. All new parties that reject cultural Marxism are easily outmaneuvered by accusations of xenophobia/racism/fascism. Actually, the way **you’ve** defined “cultural Marxism,” any party that rejects it is **defined** by xenophobia/racism/fascism. You do understand that, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/71 "2011-08-02T00:24:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Your > Actually, the way **you’ve** defined “cultural Marxism,” any party that rejects it is **defined** by xenophobia/racism/fascism. > > You do understand that, don’t you? Yeah, but in your Internationalist Utopia you seem to think the Dalai Lama, and Israeli’s are just a bunch of xenophobes for wanting to preserve their culture. There is a reasonable document outlining cultural marxism here by Douglas Kellner. > **[culturalmarxism.pdf](https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/culturalmarxism.pdf)** > > 178.19 KB ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/72 "2011-08-02T00:36:26Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > There is a reasonable document outlining cultural marxism here by Douglas Kellner. > > [http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/culturalmarxism.pdf](http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/culturalmarxism.pdf) That’s all about understanding society, not changing it. It’s about cultural **studies.** ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/73 "2011-08-02T01:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=RaleighRally] Herbert Marcuse became the chief guru of the New Left, and he injected cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now USA’s state ideology. [/QUOTE] So the rightwing conception of Cultural Marxism is that some dude named Herbert Marcuse “injected” Marxism into the baby boom generation, and therefore Marxism is now US state ideology? Then I offer that as proof that Cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory. Pretty much cased closed? ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/74 "2011-08-02T01:39:38Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Yeah, but in your Internationalist Utopia you seem to think the Dalai Lama, and Israeli’s are just a bunch of xenophobes for wanting to preserve their culture. > > There is a reasonable document outlining cultural marxism here by Douglas Kellner. > > [http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/culturalmarxism.pdf](http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/culturalmarxism.pdf) As you can easily see for yourself by reading the essay, it uses Cultural Marxism to refer to about what you’d expect - different conceptions of how Marxism could be and have been applied to “culture”. By various people, through history, belonging to different schools of Marxism, living in different countries with different modes of government. But the conception of Cultural Marxism that RaleighRally, Breivik and Tino Sanandaji all subscribe to specifically denotes the Frankfurt School and only them (check the Free Congress Foundation vid that RR posted). But they are in reality only one of many manifestations of Marxism as applied to the area of culture - and here they are rebranded and made part of a confused conspiracy theory that has something to do with muslim immigration to western countries. All clear now? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/75 "2011-08-02T23:04:07Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > In the 50s, the ideas of the Frankfurt School were repacked in ways college students could read and comprehend. In the 60s, the time was ripe for revolution. Herbert Marcuse became the chief guru of the New Left, and he injected cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now USA’s state ideology. You keep repeating this bullshit, but you have yet to provide any proof. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/76 "2011-08-02T23:16:12Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > In the 60s, the time was ripe for revolution. Herbert Marcuse became the chief guru of the New Left, and he injected cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now USA’s state ideology. Which, of course, is why the U.S. has elected four Republican presidents (for a total of 28 years) in that same period, supporting such “New Left” activities as the invasion of Iraq, repeated laws and judicial rulings to push back affirmative action, and repeated actions to limit immigration or impede support for immigrants. You are so far out of touch with reality that your claims are not just unsupportable, but ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/77 "2011-08-02T23:32:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which, of course, is why the U.S. has elected four Republican presidents (for a total of 28 years) in that same period, supporting such “New Left” activities as the invasion of Iraq, repeated laws and judicial rulings to push back affirmative action, and repeated actions to limit immigration or impede support for immigrants. > > You are so far out of touch with reality that your claims are not just unsupportable, but ludicrous. He is correct only to the extent that “racism” is now a dirty word in America, which is all **RR** is really complaining about when he says “Cultural Marxism”; and that is a change of which Marcuse indeed would have approved, and of which any decent person would approve, but I don’t see how Marcuse can claim much credit. The cultural revolution against American racism happened at a grassroots level and involved millions of people black and white with little acquaintance with Marxist theory. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/78 "2011-08-02T23:34:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which, of course, is why the U.S. has elected four Republican presidents (for a total of 28 years) in that same period, supporting such “New Left” activities as the invasion of Iraq, repeated laws and judicial rulings to push back affirmative action, and repeated actions to limit immigration or impede support for immigrants. > > You are so far out of touch with reality that your claims are not just unsupportable, but ludicrous. How do you explain the immigration act of 1965 then? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/79 "2011-08-02T23:35:27Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > How do you explain the immigration act of 1965 then? :rolleyes: Not in any way involving Herbert Marcuse. Though it would be rather to his credit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/80 "2011-08-02T23:39:01Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > How do you explain the immigration act of 1965 then? [Like this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965#Congressional_consideration) > [@](#): > > Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (Hart-Celler Act, INS, Act of 1965, Pub.L. 89-236)[1] abolished the National Origins Formula that had been in place in the United States since the Immigration Act of 1924. It was proposed by United States Representative Emanuel Celler of New York, co-sponsored by United States Senator Philip Hart of Michigan and heavily supported by United States Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts.[2] > > The Hart-Celler Act abolished the national origins quota system that had structured American immigration policy since the 1920s, replacing it with a preference system that focused on immigrants’ skills and family relationships with citizens or residents of the U.S. Numerical restrictions on visas were set at 170,000 per year, not including immediate relatives of U.S. citizens, nor “special immigrants” (including those born in “independent” nations in the Western hemisphere; former citizens; ministers; employees of the U.S. government abroad).[3] > > **Congressional consideration** > > The House of Representatives voted 326 to 69 (82.5%) in favor of the act, while the Senate passed the bill by a vote of 76 to 18. Opposition mainly came from conservative Republicans and conservative Democrats. On October 3, 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the legislation into law, saying “This [old] system violates the basic principle of American democracy, the principle that values and rewards each man on the basis of his merit as a man. It has been un-American in the highest sense, because it has been untrue to the faith that brought thousands to these shores even before we were a country.” The act came into effect on July 1, 1968. Along with the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, it serves as one of the key parts of the United States immigration code to this day. Somehow I doubt LBJ ever **heard** of Cultural Marxism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262.md?page=5)