# Can someone define "Cultural Marxism" Please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262 "2011-07-25T13:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/101 "2012-04-25T14:13:54Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Apparently in the 60’s ,in the UK, a right -wing candidate tried to scare his kind of voter by bringing up race as a strategy.. So, the term “race card” then meant the same thing it does now (demagogic appeals to racial solidarity). What’s your point? > [@What\_the](#): > > Still waiting… Er, if you’re waiting for yourself to provide that fourth example (or, for that matter, replace the third example you did provide with a term that has, in fact, changed from one meaning to another), complaining to the rest of the board won’t help. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/102 "2012-04-26T13:05:39Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > So, the term “race card” then meant the same thing it does now (demagogic appeals to racial solidarity). What’s your point? [Wiki on the two different contexts.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_card) ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/103 "2012-07-12T00:53:43Z")
Sorry to bump this thread but I just couldn’t resist. Here is my definition of Cultural Marxism: Cultural Marxism is colloquially known as “multiculturalism” or, less formally, Political Correctness. Through the use of “Critical Theory” developed by the marxist philosophers of the Frankfurt School and held sacrosanct by the idealists of the “New Left”, indoctrinated Cultural Marxists utilize social class criticism to undermine “capitalist” bourgeois culture. The overarching goal is to reduce the cultural dominance of the “middle-class” in favor of the proletariat, a group that is seen as being more amenable to economic marxism. In practice cultural marxists criticize the major cultural institutions of a society as being “racist” or “sexist” in order to undermine them and cause internal divisions within them. The ultimate goal is to turn a unified and functional culture into a dysfunctional and fractured one. They do this in the belief that such disorder will finally bring about Marx’s fabled “proletarian revolution”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/104 "2012-07-12T01:04:37Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Cultural Marxism is colloquially known as “multiculturalism” or, less formally, Political Correctness. Well, that makes sense. In other words, now it is like “Political Correctness,” nothing more than a glib dismissal thrown out by people who don’t like a topic or the direction of a discussion, based on a vague reference to an historical phenomenon that no longer exists. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/105 "2012-07-12T08:37:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, that makes sense. > In other words, now it is like “Political Correctness,” nothing more than a glib dismissal thrown out by people who don’t like a topic or the direction of a discussion, based on a vague reference to an historical phenomenon that no longer exists. Laugh it off, Mod Boy, but you’ll be first up against the wall when the Cultural Marxist Revolution comes! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/106 "2012-07-12T10:26:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Laugh it off, Mod Boy, but you’ll be first up against the wall when the Cultural Marxist Revolution comes! Well, I won’t be holding my breath for an event that has already come and gone with less of a ripple that a feather falling into the ocean on a windy day. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chuck11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Chuck11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chuck11)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/107 "2012-07-12T22:25:35Z")
The concept is developed in [this book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Strange-Death-Marxism-Millennium/dp/0826215971). Refer also [here](http://www.vdare.com/articles/yes-virginia-there-is-a-cultural-marxism). > [@](#): > > Is it possible, however, to talk about “cultural Marxism” as a purely descriptive term? Does “cultural Marxism” describe in a neutral enough fashion the movement of ideas that came out of the Frankfurt School and which has gained a powerful hold on Western countries? > > In my book, The Strange Death of Marxism, I argued that these ideas established themselves as leftist programs and progressive rhetoric throughout Western Europe, Canada, and the US before the fall of the Soviet empire. They evolved into a form of leftist radicalism that could coexist with consumer societies and mixed economies, because they focused on culture and society much more than they did the economy. Frankfurt School ideas have encouraged a war without quarter against bourgeois institutions and national identities—but that war does not necessarily require far-reaching change in the structure of the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Chuck11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Chuck11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chuck11)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/108 "2012-07-12T23:08:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, that makes sense. > In other words, now it is like “Political Correctness,” nothing more than a glib dismissal thrown out by people who don’t like a topic or the direction of a discussion, based on a vague reference to an historical phenomenon that no longer exists. Cultural marxism (CM) refers to marxist type critique, moralism, and utopic idealization applied to cultural as opposed to class (e.g., instead of proletariat vs bourgeois, cultural marxists focus on victim versus cultural supremacist; instead of a communist utopia, they strive for a culturally “inclusive, diverse” utopia; their focus on “social justice” is cultural, race, or ethnic based, not class based.) PC merely refers to social taboos, typically established by the left; there’s an overlap between PC and CM, as the latter utilize PC, but the two are conceptually distinct. The difference is comparable to that between “morality” and “Islam.” As for “multiculturalism”, there are senses in which it’s basically cultural marxism by another name, but there are also senses in which it means something different such as the converse of assimilationist policy. Like PC, multiculturalism can be used as a means of achieving the CM utopia (e.g., by deconstructing national characters), but it is not CM, except when it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/109 "2012-07-13T00:49:30Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Sorry to bump this thread but I just couldn’t resist. Here is my definition of Cultural Marxism: > > Cultural Marxism is colloquially known as “multiculturalism” or, less formally, Political Correctness. > > Through the use of “Critical Theory” developed by the marxist philosophers of the Frankfurt School and held sacrosanct by the idealists of the “New Left”, indoctrinated Cultural Marxists utilize social class criticism to undermine “capitalist” bourgeois culture. The overarching goal is to reduce the cultural dominance of the “middle-class” in favor of the proletariat, a group that is seen as being more amenable to economic marxism. > > In practice cultural marxists criticize the major cultural institutions of a society as being “racist” or “sexist” in order to undermine them and cause internal divisions within them. The ultimate goal is to turn a unified and functional culture into a dysfunctional and fractured one. They do this in the belief that such disorder will finally bring about Marx’s fabled “proletarian revolution”. :dubious: That’s as much as to say that [political correctness](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness) has “proletarian revolution” as its goal, which is entirely too ludicrous an idea to be taken seriously, **and you fucking know it.** > [@](#): > > The term **political correctness or “PC”** usually refers to upholding a social taboo against language and attitudes that might be considered offensive. This term has become a boogey-man for the right, who use it to tar anything that runs contrary to their own policies, such as letting women out of the kitchen or gays out of the closet. > > Ruth Perry wrote in an essay entitled _A Short History of the Term “Politically Correct”_[1] that the term was first coined by Mao Zedong,[2] but was later hijacked by right wing nut jobs conservative eclectics who proceeded to overuse it in exactly the manner above described, hence taking all the juice out of it.[3] More recently, advocates of political correctness have therefore substituted the term “civilized speech” for “politically correct” in order to boost its image in light of the PC backlash. > > Ironically, conservatives have also adopted political correctness widely; trying to justify censorship on the grounds that something is “offensive to Christians,” for example, or Conservapedia’s insistence on BC/AD to the total exclusion of BCE/CE. > > Passive-aggressive people who defend racism but don’t want to be labeled that way attack dissenters as “politically correct.” Nor does either equate to [multiculturalism.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Multiculturalism) > [@](#): > > **Multiculturalism** is the phenomenon of multiple groups of cultures existing within one society, largely due to the arrival of immigrant communities. Supporters of multiculturalism claim that different traditions and cultures can enrich society; however, the concept also has its critics, to the point where the term “multiculturalism” may well be used more by critics than by supporters. It could, indeed, be classified as a snarl word. > > **Definitions** > > Multiculturalism occurs naturally when a society is willing to accept the culture of immigrants (with, ideally, immigrants also willing to accept the culture of the land to which they have come.) A distinction should be drawn between multiculturalism that occurs simply due to the absense of a single enforced culture, and multiculturalism which is endorsed and actively encouraged by the government; this is often referred to as state multiculturalism. > > Kenan Malik states that “The experience of living in a society transformed by mass immigration, a society that is less insular, more vibrant and more cosmopolitan, is positive” but contrasts this with the political process of multiculturalism, which “describes a set of policies, the aim of which is to manage diversity by putting people into ethnic boxes, defining individual needs and rights by virtue of the boxes into which people are put, and using those boxes to shape public policy.”[1] That has nothing to do with “proletarian revolution” either, **of course.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/110 "2012-07-13T00:57:43Z")
> [@Chuck11](#): > > The concept is developed in [this book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Strange-Death-Marxism-Millennium/dp/0826215971). Refer also [here](http://www.vdare.com/articles/yes-virginia-there-is-a-cultural-marxism). :rolleyes: That [VDARE](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/VDARE) piece by [Paul Gottfried](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gottfried) **actually** refers to the Southern Poverty Law Center as a “leftist vigilante group.” 'Nuff said, and less said the better. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/111 "2012-07-13T01:49:44Z")
> [@Chuck11](#): > > The concept is developed in [this book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Strange-Death-Marxism-Millennium/dp/0826215971). Refer also [here](http://www.vdare.com/articles/yes-virginia-there-is-a-cultural-marxism). So, basically, it is nothing more than a defunct academic exercise, the name of which is still waved about by crusaders from the Far Right to try to poison the well of any discussion in which they have too few facts, so they must wave the “Marx” boogeyman around, (even though he had nothing to do with it), to taint the discussion. Basically, “cultural Marxism” is simply a bad mindset that libels the person for whom it is named by misapplying some eponymous ideas in totally inappropriate contexts, much like “social Darwinism.” And, as noted, the former is now not even pursued much in academia, remaining in the language only as an insult by people who need a handy code word for “bad” that does not get them branded as rude for using the words they would prefer to use. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/112 "2012-07-13T14:24:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Basically, “cultural Marxism” is simply a bad mindset that libels the person for whom it is named by misapplying some eponymous ideas in totally inappropriate contexts, much like “social Darwinism.” And, as noted, the former is now not even pursued much in academia, remaining in the language only as an insult by people who need a handy code word for “bad” that does not get them branded as rude for using the words they would prefer to use. While I’m sure it’s as dead as a canned sardine in academia, on the Intertubes “social Darwinism” is a phrase I still encounter people **arguing** for, as signifying a **good** thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/113 "2012-07-13T17:39:27Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, that makes sense. > In other words, now it is like “Political Correctness,” nothing more than a glib dismissal thrown out by people who don’t like a topic or the direction of a discussion, based on a vague reference to an historical phenomenon that no longer exists. Yes, but there’s “Marxism” in it, so it’s at least 30% more scary. Abloogybloogywoo ! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/114 "2012-07-13T18:36:15Z")
Actually, the whole thing’s a mistranslation of **"cultured** Marxism." Workers of the world, would you care to discuss Baroque-era art and design? ---
**Author:** ![Chuck11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Chuck11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chuck11)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/115 "2012-07-13T19:42:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, basically, it is nothing more than a defunct academic exercise, the name of which is still waved about by crusaders from the Far Right to try to poison the well of any discussion in which they have too few facts, so they must wave the “Marx” boogeyman around, (even though he had nothing to do with it), to taint the discussion.. My point was pretty simple and spot on topic: the term can have descriptive content. Let’s take the case of “fascist” as an example. “Fascist” can just mean “bad” in which case it has no content or context (think: “liberal fascism”) or “fascist” can mean “someone who embraces a political philosophy which values (whatever was characteristic of Spanish, Italian, Austrian, etc. fascism)” in which case it has content and context, even if the term is uttered with a sneer. Or as is the case more often, the term can be used as a pejorative to smear people who embrace a political philosophy which is thought to shares some fascist like characteristics (e.g., a value of hierarchy) or it can be used to describe political philosophies that reasonably resemble fascism (e.g., Pinochet’s’s Chile). The same holds for “cultural marxist.” The point again is that there is a neutral usage of the term. Whether it meaningfully describes a contemporaneous movement is a separate issue, which we can discuss in the yet created thread: “Do cultural marxists still exist?” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/116 "2012-07-13T21:51:02Z")
> [@Chuck11](#): > > MThe same holds for “cultural marxist.” The point again is that there is a neutral usage of the term. Yes, but there’s only **one** – usage in reference to the long-gone academic school that called itself that. > [@Chuck11](#): > > Whether it meaningfully describes a contemporaneous movement is a separate issue, which we can discuss in the yet created thread: “Do cultural marxists still exist?” Start that thread if you like, but the answer is no. In fact there never **was** such a **movement,** only a school. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/117 "2012-07-13T22:19:22Z")
> [@Chuck11](#): > > My point was pretty simple and spot on topic: the term can have descriptive content. Let’s take the case of “fascist” as an example. “Fascist” can just mean “bad” in which case it has no content or context (think: “liberal fascism”) or “fascist” can mean “someone who embraces a political philosophy which values (whatever was characteristic of Spanish, Italian, Austrian, etc. fascism)” in which case it has content and context, even if the term is uttered with a sneer. Or as is the case more often, the term can be used as a pejorative to smear people who embrace a political philosophy which is thought to shares some fascist like characteristics (e.g., a value of hierarchy) or it can be used to describe political philosophies that reasonably resemble fascism (e.g., Pinochet’s’s Chile). > > The same holds for “cultural marxist.” The point again is that there is a neutral usage of the term. Whether it meaningfully describes a contemporaneous movement is a separate issue, which we can discuss in the yet created thread: “Do cultural marxists still exist?” Interesting comparison. I tend to treat serious discussions of actual fascism, (authoritarian governement, cultic leader, appeal to (often imaginary) “racial” superiority, etc.) with sufficient respect to engage in those discussions. On the other hand, people who use “fascism” as a mindless synonym for “bad,” (Islamo-fascism, Femi-nazis, fascist police, etc.), announce themselves to be less than capable of carrying out a serious discussion, resorting as they are to simply throwing out mis-applied meaningless phrases with no current relevance. Similarly, if someone wanted to discuss the philosophies of a few now dead academics who embraced “cultural Marxism,” I might choose to participate in those discussions in the same way that I would discuss Athenian Democracy or other long departed social trends, but people who spout claims about “cultural Marxism” in the present tense simply render any further discussion moot, since they are merely abusing the term as a synonym for “bad” while pretending that the entire movement had not died out several decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/118 "2012-07-13T22:28:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: That’s as much as to say that [political correctness](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness) has “proletarian revolution” as its goal, which is entirely too ludicrous an idea to be taken seriously, **and you fucking know it.** Actually political correctness does have a marxist goal at its heart and here is the proof: “white trash”. It is perfectly acceptable to for anyone anywhere at anytime to openly label people as “white trash”, the term appears in the MSM frequently and leftist columnists and commenters use it with reckless abandon. Contrast that phrase with a similar disparaging phrase for blacks, hispanics, asians, or any other group and the hypocrisy is apparent. This is cultural marxism in action. Racism is real, racism exists in every ethnic group and it is directed outward at every other ethnic group. Marxists, however, only recognize and act upon racist action coming from the “bourgeoisie” (in modern America the white “middle-class”) and they simultaneously deny the existence or relevance of racism directed toward the bourgeoisie. And it goes well beyond the hypocrisy of “political correctness”, look at Affirmative Action and Hate Crime Laws, these are clear examples of institutionalized racism against a specific segment of the population. Cultural Marxism is thriving, even if it goes by some other name among some other group of people. To parapharase Shakespeare: marxism by any other name smells just as rotten 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/119 "2012-07-13T22:33:34Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > To parapharase Shakespeare: marxism by any other name smells just as rotten 😃 I don’t care much about your nonsense theory, but please don’t abuse Shakespeare like this. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262/120 "2012-07-13T22:51:35Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Actually political correctness does have a marxist goal at its heart and here is the proof: “white trash”. It is perfectly acceptable to for anyone anywhere at anytime to openly label people as “white trash”, the term appears in the MSM frequently and leftist columnists and commenters use it with reckless abandon. Contrast that phrase with a similar disparaging phrase for blacks, hispanics, asians, or any other group and the hypocrisy is apparent. This is cultural marxism in action. :dubious: And how is **that** supposed to lead to proletarian revolution?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-define-cultural-marxism-please/590262.md?page=7)