# Can someone explain in a nutshell EXACTLY what the Republicans object to re Obamacare **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358 "2016-02-17T18:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/41 "2016-02-17T21:52:29Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > What the Republicans object to most about Obamacare is that it was proposed by Obama. > > SOME object to Obamacare on the grounds that the only proper function of the government is the protection of individual rights . . . i.e., defense, the police and the courts. Everything else should be privatized; free trade among free individuals. And they say, regarding healthcare, if it were totally privatized it would be better and cheaper. True, _and_ that it is successful. Look, Obamacare is closely modeled on a Republican Governors plan. As long as it was Romney’s plan, the hatred of Obamacare wasn’t there. Sure,\* some\* conservatives object to _all_ plans of that sort. But the white hot hatred is due to the fact that Obamacare is from a black liberal Democratic president. > **[Mitt Romney admits universal healthcare plan he implemented as Massachusetts...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/10/23/mitt-romney-admits-universal-healthcare-plan-he-implemented-as-massachusetts-governor-influenced-obamacare/)** > > WASHINGTON — Mitt Romney is finally taking credit — or admitting blame — for Obamacare. After years of denying that Obamacare was closely modeled on the universal healthcare insur… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/42 "2016-02-17T21:55:20Z")
Because racism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/43 "2016-02-17T21:55:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please cite these federal plans that had no opposition. Romneycare had little significant opposition, and was passed by both parties. Nor did he say “federal”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/44 "2016-02-17T22:02:48Z")
I can answer for myself as a Republican Does nothing to lower actual health care costs. My insurance went up $20/mo Health insurance is a scam. I pay a lot of money per month to turn around and pay out the ass to cover co-pays/deductables/percentage of coverage when I need it\*. NOTHING was done to reform this and now it is mandatory. Overall, it may not have made things much worse but except for guarantied acceptance it didn’t make things any better except for insurance companies. - As an example. The doctor basically forced to have Mrs Cad take a sleep test she didn’t need and that we objected to. The test “cost” $3000 of which we paid $1200 to have some technician watch her sleep. Test results of course came back negative. Thank you Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/45 "2016-02-17T22:09:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > - As an example. The doctor basically forced to have Mrs Cad take a sleep test she didn’t need and that we objected to. The test “cost” $3000 of which we paid $1200 to have some technician watch her sleep. Test results of course came back negative. Thank you Obamacare. You have the right to refuse any test or treatment you don’t want. That hasn’t changed. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/46 "2016-02-17T22:14:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post > > > > - As an example. The doctor basically forced to have Mrs Cad take a sleep test she didn’t need and that we objected to. The test “cost” $3000 of which we paid $1200 to have some technician watch her sleep. Test results of course came back negative. Thank you Obamacare. > > You have the right to refuse any test or treatment you don’t want. That hasn’t changed. Yes, a strange example. Doctors can’t force you to take a sleep test you don’t need. And, to the extent you felt pressured, the doctor would have had exactly the same motivation with your pre-ACA health insurance as he or she would now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/47 "2016-02-17T22:18:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Romneycare had little significant opposition, and was passed by both parties. Nor did he say “federal”. I said federal. I said federal in the post he responded to, and my post responding to his reply. That’s the whole point. There are many things that states are allowed to do that the feds cannot. As I already said, plenary vs limited powers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/48 "2016-02-17T22:29:51Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Obamacare shows the difference in philosophy between liberals and conservatives. Liberals say, “If the government can do X, it should.” This is very often closely related to “the ends justify the means.” More like ‘The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.’ ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/49 "2016-02-17T22:30:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The ACA achieved an unhappy medium. Didn’t lower costs the way single payer would have, but sure irritated millions of Americans. Did you mean ‘insured’? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/50 "2016-02-17T22:35:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > More like ‘The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.’ That’s Vulcan philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/51 "2016-02-17T22:43:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s Vulcan philosophy. It’s pretty much the definition of a society. Anyway (I have to make this quick because I’m still working) ISTM that the main objection I hear about is the individual mandate. How about a compromise? Get rid of the individual mandate. That way people who know they will never get old or sick or have a catastrophic injury or devastating illness or whatever, can opt out. To pay for the needs of society, add a small tax to everyone’s paycheck. That way, societal needs are met, the people who have opted in have insurance, and the people who have opted out can choose to die quickly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/52 "2016-02-17T22:47:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s pretty much the definition of a society. Not a civilized society. The main reason we have a government that recognizes individual rights is to prevent the many from exploiting the few. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/53 "2016-02-17T23:03:26Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This got too personal too fast. I got the information I wanted. Thanks to all who were not rude. Continue quietly among yourselves. > > \ Rude? Getting answers you don’t like is rude? From your posts it sounds you just wanted another Dope thread calling Republicans doody-heads. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/54 "2016-02-17T23:06:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not a civilized society. The main reason we have a government that recognizes individual rights is to prevent the many from exploiting the few. A civilized society is one which recognizes value in the well-being of society itself – in social justice and social solidarity – because “society” defines the nature of the immediate world we live in and how we treat each other. Individual rights are important but there’s always a balance between individual rights and the well-being of society as a whole. Establishing that balance is the very essence of civilization. Allowing individual rights to trump everything is easy to do but that’s not civilization, it’s libertarian anarchy and is usually conducive to a plutocracy. Enforcing collective rights as paramount is essentially communism and is usually conducive to totalitarianism. Neither extreme is a terribly good idea or consistent with democratic ideals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/55 "2016-02-17T23:20:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > A civilized society is one which recognizes value in the well-being of society itself – in social justice and social solidarity – because “society” defines the nature of the immediate world we live in and how we treat each other. Individual rights are important but there’s always a balance between individual rights and the well-being of society as a whole. Establishing that balance is the very essence of civilization. Allowing individual rights to trump everything is easy to do but that’s not civilization, it’s libertarian anarchy and is usually conducive to a plutocracy. Enforcing collective rights as paramount is essentially communism and is usually conducive to totalitarianism. Neither extreme is a terribly good idea or consistent with democratic ideals. I don’t disagree with that. I was responding to someone who said the definition of society is that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. That would be a excellent definition of an insect society, but not of a human society. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/56 "2016-02-17T23:20:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not a civilized society. The main reason we have a government that recognizes individual rights is to prevent the many from exploiting the few. The purpose of government is to prevent the powerful from exploiting the weak. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/57 "2016-02-17T23:21:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The purpose of government is to prevent the powerful from exploiting the weak. Please look at the post I was responding to. Do you agree with **Johnny LA**? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/58 "2016-02-17T23:23:58Z")
I was responding to your post, not Johnny L.A.'s. You made an assertion, and I corrected it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/59 "2016-02-17T23:27:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I was responding to your post, not Johnny L.A.'s. You made an assertion, and I corrected it. Your correction is wrong. Individual rights are secured against the government, which is represented by “the many”. We institute laws to protect you from “the powerful”, but not rights. If you look at the Bill of Rights, for example, none of them is to protect you from “the powerful” outside of government. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/60 "2016-02-17T23:32:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The purpose of government is to prevent the powerful from exploiting the weak. Cite? SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. _-Thomas Paine_ Society is not government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358.md?page=4)