# Can someone explain in a nutshell EXACTLY what the Republicans object to re Obamacare **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358 "2016-02-17T18:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/161 "2016-02-22T16:52:44Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Do you then agree that if someone who doesn’t buy health insurance and has no means to pay for health care, [should] be denied emergency room services, whether in case of an accident or just general care? This isn’t even really a workable policy, because the people at the ER aren’t guaranteed to have a good way of determining if somebody has means to pay. EMS, for example, will grab a seriously-injured person at the scene of an accident, but they don’t hang around waiting for identification if it’s not immediately apparent. Treatment starts before the hospital even has a name, much less an insurance card. Somebody with no insurance may have perfectly adequate private means of paying, but the ER nurses aren’t going to run a credit check to find out before starting CPR. Conversely, somebody may have an apparently-valid insurance card, but then the hospital’s claims are denied because premiums weren’t paid, employment has ended, or some other reason. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/162 "2016-02-22T17:26:16Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > This isn’t even really a workable policy, because the people at the ER aren’t guaranteed to have a good way of determining if somebody has means to pay. > > EMS, for example, will grab a seriously-injured person at the scene of an accident, but they don’t hang around waiting for identification if it’s not immediately apparent. Treatment starts before the hospital even has a name, much less an insurance card. Somebody with no insurance may have perfectly adequate private means of paying, but the ER nurses aren’t going to run a credit check to find out before starting CPR. > > Conversely, somebody may have an apparently-valid insurance card, but then the hospital’s claims are denied because premiums weren’t paid, employment has ended, or some other reason. In the U.K. we pay a compulsory percentage of earnings towards health care and a state pension on retirement, this means that we have full health care through out our life time and money to live on when retired, would this work in America or would your different state laws prevent it ---
**Author:** ![pat88xser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@pat88xser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pat88xser)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/163 "2016-02-22T20:40:48Z")
Sadly, race has a lot to do with it. With racists, it’s that simple. Something they supported, thinking it would help them and their families, is rejected because the Democratic Black president presented it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/164 "2016-02-22T20:58:56Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > In the U.K. we pay a compulsory percentage of earnings towards health care and a state pension on retirement, this means that we have full health care through out our life time and money to live on when retired, would this work in America or would your different state laws prevent it We have Social Security, which works similarly to National Insurance. We _could_ have something like the NHS if the federal government chose to enact it, but that seems unlikely in the short term. What’s more likely to happen is that states will decide to adopt individual universal coverage schemes one by one. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/165 "2016-02-23T07:07:19Z")
> [@RingsOfPylon](#): > > It would also be safe to say that both the insurance company and the government are interested in whether or not there’s, say, an over-prescribing of opioids going on… > > There are probably also other accountability mechanisms… > > I bet the overheads are not that dissimilar. … I’m not sure anyone outside of the industry even realizes what goes on behind the scenes. Perhaps. But the “red tape” costs associated with good-faith reporting are much less than costs to cope with the profit-motivated obstructions present in the U.S. system. Doctors report wasting many man-hours dealing with insurers. Patients also lose much time although, since unpaid, the waste of citizens’ time isn’t included in healthcare cost figures. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/166 "2016-02-26T14:25:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s a poor example with no limiting principle. The “we don’t want to live that way” can be applied to anything and that is one of the objections to the ACA. > > In the auto example we are forced to insure against damage to others. Ignoring self insurance, what is being guarded against is using the public road and causing damage to someone else. No insurance is required for driving on your own property. > > Health insurance is fundamentally different. There is no damage being done to others if you go without insurance, not direct anyways. And that’s why the auto insurance comparison fails. The ACA doesnt force people to buy insurance if they use some public road, it does so if you are alive. There is no opt out. People should have the freedom to choose and with the ACA that is not possible. > > And for large swathes of the population health insurance is a bad deal - we know this because without young healthy people to subsidize the rest of the population, the model is unsustainable. Problem is say Joe Blow opts out, doesn’t want to pay for any doctor visits out of pocket, ignores a growth on his arm, gets cancer and shows up on the steps of the hospital. What do you want to happen? Do we say “see ya Joe, nice knowing you”? Or is he helped? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358/167 "2016-02-26T17:41:36Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Problem is say Joe Blow opts out, doesn’t want to pay for any doctor visits out of pocket, ignores a growth on his arm, gets cancer and shows up on the steps of the hospital. What do you want to happen? Do we say “see ya Joe, nice knowing you”? Or is he helped? And to extend on this, if Joe Blow dies from untreated cancer, are his survivors eligible for benefits from his fellow taxpayers? How about if Joe seeks treatment, survives, but then goes bankrupt on the bills? If you are alive, there is a non-trivial chance that somebody is going to have to pay for health care for you. If that somebody is not you, directly or via insurance, then who? If you go without health insurance and lack the means to pay your own bills, you may very well damage the pocketbooks of others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-in-a-nutshell-exactly-what-the-republicans-object-to-re-obamacare/746358.md?page=8)