# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/182 "2023-07-31T18:38:49Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I think it would be very difficult to come up with a concrete definition of biggest artist, particularly in this era of streaming and fragmented sales, but an argument could be made that if you look at where everyone was at 33 years old, she is the biggest artist since the Beatles. I was only going for “Biggest Queen of Pop” when I made that comment, but that’s some interesting context for sure. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/183 "2023-07-31T18:53:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > She’s bigger by far, and has been for years. > > Better, too. Yes to both, but Madonna had her moments. I still listen to “Like a Prayer” if only for the chills that Guy Pratt’s bass line gives me. Well, not just that – the whole song is cathartic to me. Still, Taylor Swift is on yet another level. For a catalog as large as hers, there are relatively few duds. My youngest daughter (7) has gone full-on Swiftie since Taylor Swift came through Chicago last month and some of her peers at day camp have revealed their fandom. I pretty much hear Taylor Swift now 50% of the time she is home. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/184 "2023-07-31T20:04:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes to both, but Madonna had her moments. I was never a fan. I greatly preferred Cyndi Lauper at the time, and still do. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/185 "2023-07-31T20:08:50Z")
They both were good for very different things. Cyndi I definitely found more interesting and nuanced overall, with more breadth and depth to her material, but for the dance-y stuff I liked Madonna. I’m a sucker for straight-up mass-market Top 40 pop, too. But I find Taylor more remarkable in this regard, as well, compared to Madonna, in terms of her material. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/186 "2023-07-31T20:18:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > for the dance-y stuff I liked Madonna Aah, I would have been dancing to industrial & EBM by the time Madonna hit. Pop was for listening to. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/187 "2023-07-31T20:27:58Z")
We had house here in Chicago, of course. Plus Ministry. But when you wanted something a little less extra… 🙂 Madonna wasn’t particularly considered cool by my peer group, but her, Janet Jackson, and even Paula Abdul I’ll always have a soft spot for (well, the theater/dance kids loved all them.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/188 "2023-08-01T19:06:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes to both, but Madonna had her moments. It’s difficult to describe the place Madonna had in my cultural upbringing in the late 80s/early 90s, because it’s pretty profound. I consider her a feminist icon that has had a real impact on how I view myself and the world. But I haven’t listened to her music in a long time, even the old stuff. I’m not sure why. I’m not the kind of person who listens to female pop artists on a regular basis, I find the subject matter of pop songs is often pretty vapid, but Madonna was my one exception for a long time. I was okay with Lady Gaga taking over for Madonna. Lady Gaga is pretty cool, and I haven’t listened to much of Swift’s stuff, but I’m sure she’s worthy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/189 "2023-08-01T20:17:51Z")
I have no idea what’s going on with Taylor Swift. I must have heard her songs being played but I can’t identify one, don’t know the names of them at all. I have never seen her perform, even on television. So now that I’ve stated my qualifications I want to say that Cindy Lauper was a much better musician than Madonna. _Time After Time_ will be played and remembered long into the future when no one remembers who Madonna was any more. Eventually I may listen to a Taylor Swift song. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/190 "2023-08-01T20:33:26Z")
I loved Madonna and Cyndi. I remember being totally pissed at my grandma for “pretending” not to know who Madonna was back in the 80s. Now I realize she wasn’t pretending! Since reading this thread, I’ve listened to a couple of TS songs that I ran across on the radio, but I still wouldn’t say I understand the phenomenon. I’m sure Taylor is very nice and I wish her continued success. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/191 "2023-08-01T21:10:54Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I was okay with Lady Gaga taking over for Madonna. Lady Gaga doesn’t want to take over for Madonna - Lady Gaga wants to take over for Barbra Streisand. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/192 "2023-08-01T21:16:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Madonna had her moments Madonna’s impact seems to have faded over the years. There used to be a YouTube series where kids listened to older songs. They were very knowledgeable about Michael Jackson , but were largely unfamiliar with Madonna. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/193 "2023-08-01T21:19:00Z")
> [@whitetho](#): > > Madonna’s impact seems to have faded over the years. There used to be a YouTube series where kids listened to older songs. They were very knowledgeable about Michael Jackson , but were largely unfamiliar with Madonna. You know, that’s a very good point. My kids know the name, but they think of her as like a one- or two-hit wonder. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/194 "2023-08-01T21:47:26Z")
Sounds about right. My two Gen Alpha kids know Jacko pretty well, but minus my incessant playing of Like A Prayer a few weeks ago, I doubt they would know any of Madonna’s work. They do know Lady Gaga quite well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/195 "2023-08-02T07:29:46Z")
I don’t allow Michael Jackson to be played in the house or car, and haven’t since before they were born, so my kids are generally unfamiliar with him, whereas they probably know some Madonna. Gaga seems to have largely disappeared _as a cutting-edge pop musician_. Not everyone loves showtunes and old man songs. But - back to Taylor Swift: one more reason for people to love her: > **[Taylor Swift Gives Over $55 Million in Bonuses to Everyone on Colossal Eras Tour](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-55-million-bonuses-eras-tour-1234799207/)** > > From tour dancers to sound technicians, the superstar made sure each worker on her show received a bonus That’s some Keanu-level generosity, there (it’s a $1 billion tour, but her cut must be a lot less than that) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/196 "2023-08-02T09:44:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Until I started watching some of thee videos in this thread, I had never in my life heard a Taylor Swift song. I do not listen to pop music, so I’ve never heard a song by her. But because of this thread, I thought I would check her out due to curiosity. I am listening to _Style_ while I type this. Not a fan at all. But my tastes in music tend to be… strange & idiosyncratic, so it’s not surprising. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/197 "2023-08-02T10:02:11Z")
I think Taylor writes catchy songs that young girls relate to. It doesn’t take much more than that to be popular, but Taylor is also known to be smart and kind and complicated and even insecure at times. Personally, her voice doesn’t appeal to me and I’m not a young girl, but I do like a few of her more recognizable songs. Shake it off is great fun. I’m envious of her enormous talent and wish her well. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/198 "2023-08-02T12:18:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not a fan at all. But my tastes in music tend to be… strange & idiosyncratic, so it’s not surprising. Hey, from personal experience, it’s possible to be a fan of both the Residents and Taylor Swift. …_folklore_ was certainly soothing listening for me in the thick of Covid. But I’d rather see them in concert than her. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/199 "2023-08-02T13:24:04Z")
My tastes range from no-wave to pop, and I’d rather a Swift concert than a Swans one. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/200 "2023-08-02T13:45:35Z")
That’s exactly how I feel about TS. I’ve listened to her acoustic versions and they’re okay, she is a storyteller who likes to explain her writing inspirations and she’s really good at that. My kids now in their twenties are no longer Swifties. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/201 "2023-08-02T13:57:55Z")
It’s not one thing; it’s just a perfect storm of marketability. She is very attractive, her songs are simple and catchy, her public image is likeable, she writes lyrics that her target audience relates to, her music is recorded with great technical proficiency, her concerts are A+ productions, and she and her team have done a tremendous job at social media marketing. Basically everything is ideal for max popularity and sales. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=11)