# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Tags:** music\
**Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 13

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**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/242 "2023-08-04T18:14:51Z")

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> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> I’ll put my alt-music _bona fides_ against anyone else’s, and I contend she’s none of those things.

Agreed. It’s never strange to me when someone says they don’t like the thing I like, but it’s always strange to me when someone says the thing I like sucks somehow.

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**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/243 "2023-08-04T18:49:17Z")

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> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> I’ll put my alt-music _bona fides_ against anyone else’s, and I contend she’s none of those things.

Yeah, my [Spotify Iceberg](https://icebergify.com/berg.html) is almost entirely underwater, and descends to the deepest depths, but I wouldn’t call Swift any of those things. She’s a powerful songwriter/performer with a lot of catchy numbers and some rather introspective songs that don’t get the same airplay _and_ a stellar ability to connect with her audience. She just isn’t in my personal wheelhouse.

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**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/244 "2023-08-04T18:53:54Z")

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Sorry. Paris Hilton? Nobody I ever even think about when I think of music.

Yeah, @Jophiel . I’m not a fan. She’s o.k. I don’t see why anyone else cares. I’m never impressed by just numbers. Everybody else can lurve her.

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**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/245 "2023-08-04T18:56:21Z")

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Re: bland, vanilla, etc. I think it is mostly just that she knows her musical wheelhouse and doesn’t venture much beyond it, but unarguably dominates the market within it. While she would potentially appeal to me more if she strayed from her comfort zone and took risks (e.g. Miley Cyrus, PJ Harvey, Madonna) I can’t deny her talent and dominance at what she does. It’s kind of like criticizing AC/DC for not releasing cross-over jazz albums or duets with Celine Dion.

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**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/246 "2023-08-04T19:03:31Z")

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> [@GargoyleWB](#):
>
> I think it is mostly just that she knows her musical wheelhouse and doesn’t venture much beyond it, but unarguably dominates the market within it. While she would potentially appeal to me more if she strayed from her comfort zone and took risks

She went from being a country star to going full pop to releasing an indie rock album. She isn’t doing really wild things, but she has definitely strayed from her comfort zone.

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**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/247 "2023-08-04T19:06:40Z")

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> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> She went from being a country star to going full pop to releasing an indie rock album.

I assume most people leveling accusations of never trying new things are people who (reasonably) don’t buy/stream her albums and only ever hear her biggest hit Top 40 stuff. And right now a lot of her Top 40 stuff has been re-recordings of her older stuff which further drives the illusion.

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**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/248 "2023-08-04T19:34:59Z")

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> [@Alessan](#):
>
> I get that she’s really big, I’m just bewildered that people are so besotted with someone so bland, so vanilla, so middle-of-the-road. I guess the music industry finally managed to concoct the perfect product.

Fans are White suburban left leaning according to a recent poll. Aka vanilla bland boring 🤣

> **[A Demographic Deep Dive Into the Taylor Swift Fandom](https://pro.morningconsult.com/instant-intel/taylor-swift-fandom-demographic)**
>
> A slim majority of U.S. adults identified as fans of Swift, according to a recent Morning Consult survey

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**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/249 "2023-08-04T19:37:28Z")

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The opiate of the masses.

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**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/250 "2023-08-04T19:44:36Z")

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> [@carrps](#):
>
> Yeah, she has some talent

“Some talent” is an understatement. She won a nationwide poetry contest when she was ten.

> **[Taylor Swift's Poem She Wrote At Age 10 Is Proof Her Writing Is Unmatched |...](https://kiisfm.iheart.com/content/2022-12-06-taylor-swifts-poem-she-wrote-at-age-10-is-proof-her-writing-is-unmatched/)**
>
> Taylor Swift's ✍️ is unmatched! 👏😍

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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/251 "2023-08-04T20:13:06Z")

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> [@carrps](#):
>
> Sorry. Paris Hilton? Nobody I ever even think about when I think of music.

…[and yet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KXwYjG8txo)…

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**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/252 "2023-08-04T20:44:17Z")

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> [@chela](#):
>
> Fans are White suburban left leaning according to a recent poll

That’s pretty interesting, really.  
Swift’s fans are 53% suburban, 26% urban and 21% rural  
US population is 52% suburban, 27% urban and 21% rural

I’m wondering about their racial split. I wouldn’t be surprised if Swift fans were whiter than the national average but that chart doesn’t even list Hispanic/Latino which I’m guessing is either a bad sample (356 people) or them lumping those categories into “White”. I’m very skeptical that 13% of Swift’s fans are Black but \<4% are Hispanic. See also the Urban/Suburban/Rural breakdown – that’d be some weird over-representation in urban whites to keep those numbers up while having essentially no Hispanic fan base.

Given that her fan base skews younger (56% Gen Z or Millennial), it’s no surprise that they’re 55% Democratic and I’m a little surprised it’s not higher. Must be that 23% Baby Boomer fan contingent holding it back 😃

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**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/253 "2023-08-04T20:55:50Z")

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I’m reminded of this:

> **[Heatmap](https://xkcd.com/1138/)**
>
> There are also a lot of global versions of this map showing traffic to English-language websites which are indistinguishable from maps of the location of internet users who are native English speakers.

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**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/254 "2023-08-04T21:12:17Z")

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Hah, I was actually thinking that she seemed like a cross-demographic star – basically an Every American type. I suppose that might make her “vanilla” to some detractors but it’s probably more impressive than only appealing to small niche audiences.

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**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/255 "2023-08-04T21:29:08Z")

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> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Hah, I was actually thinking that she seemed like a cross-demographic star – basically an Every American type.

Not for nothing that “Miss Americana” is one of her nicknames.

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**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/256 "2023-08-04T21:35:02Z")

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> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> I’m wondering about their racial split. I wouldn’t be surprised if Swift fans were whiter than the national average but that chart doesn’t even list Hispanic/Latino which I’m guessing is either a bad sample (356 people) or them lumping those categories into “White”. I’m very skeptical that 13% of Swift’s fans are Black but \<4% are Hispanic. See also the Urban/Suburban/Rural breakdown – that’d be some weird over-representation in urban whites to keep those numbers up while having essentially no Hispanic fan base.

In the US census, Hispanic/non-Hispanic is an ethnicity subquestion, versus white, black, etc as race. I’m assuming that followed the same demographic approach.

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**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/257 "2023-08-04T22:24:28Z")

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I would love an AC/DC Celine duet!

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**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/258 "2023-08-04T22:49:17Z")

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You’ll have to settle for this.

[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/21iW_YMLvmU/hqdefault.jpg "Celine Dion & Anastacia - You Shook Me All Night Long (Live Divas Las Vegas 2002) HDTV") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21iW_YMLvmU)

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**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/259 "2023-08-04T23:08:58Z")

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Come on, don’t be one of those people who feels the need to crap on young people’s music. I’m Gen X and I thought Madonna was straight up pop trash for the basics. If you liked her, that’s cool, but don’t pretend it was anything more than what the Monkees accomplished.

Swift seems to speak to a generation of young women, that’s a nice change from decades of bro culture bullshit.

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**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/260 "2023-08-04T23:31:36Z")

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> [@madmonk28](#):
>
> Swift seems to speak to a generation of young women, that’s a nice change from decades of bro culture bullshit.

I’ll admit that she’s better than the interchangeable boy bands she seems to have supplanted. If teenage girls are going to listen to overproduced pop music, then at least they can listen to it from a woman.

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**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\
**Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/261 "2023-08-04T23:40:13Z")

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Right. She’s not the worst. She just doesn’t appeal to me. I doubt she cares. She’s making money by the bucketload without me.

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