# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![chrisjourney](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chrisjourney/32/14861_2.png) [@chrisjourney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisjourney)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/342 "2023-09-04T08:36:52Z")
I think it’s because she was able to cross genres like go from country to pop to slow songs to fast songs, rock and roll. Lots of catchy music and looks like her music videos are high budget. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/343 "2023-09-04T13:31:10Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I was just, out of curiousity, checking Taylor Swift ticket prices for her Toronto show and they range from $2000 to $16000, which just astonishes the crap out of me. My nephews and their partners are going to a Taylor swift concert in Rio. My nephew told me it was a lot cheaper than going to one in the US, counting airfare and hotel costs. > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Here in the US at least, you could get tickets starting at $49 US if you got into the pre-sale. No doubt. But there are substantially costs (mostly invested time) in doing that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/344 "2023-09-07T09:18:43Z")
Ok, I have now listened to Taylor Swift for about a week on my headphones as I work from home. It’s growing on me. Yes, it’s pop music, but it’s something I can actually listen to for a while without growing tired of it. That’s the problem I usually have with a lot pop music. It can be fun and gimmicky, but after listening for a while it’s seems shallow and tiring. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/345 "2023-09-08T13:12:37Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I was under the tutelage of Gen X, but I can name several of her albums, have listened to all of them, and have seen _Blonde Ambition_ and _The Girly Show_ and read _The Sex Book._ I was a religious and somewhat prudish teenager when _Sex_ came out (I got better). I thought it was trashy, until I read a critic who pointed out that Madonna knew, as a young, attractive singer/dancer, that her sexuality would be commodified; _Sex_ was her way of taking control of that process, to make it happen on her terms. If someone was going to profit on her sexuality, it would be her. (Not to mention publishing a book of explicit nudes would draw the sting of pretty much any leaked sextape or creep shot that would ever come out in the future.) That essay made me rethink her, and respect her more. I also have respect for artists that are willing to take chances outside their comfort zone - like a pop diva singing Sondheim, or Keanu Reeves doing Shakespeare with RADA-trained actors (_Much Ado About Nothing_). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/346 "2023-09-08T13:24:17Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I was a religious and somewhat prudish teenager when _Sex_ came out Ironically, so was I. but I had a single Aunt just thirteen years older than me, with single friends, whom I spent practically every weekend with as an adolescent (one of which was a gay man, and Madonna was a gay icon in those days.) It was non-stop Madonna, so I too came to respect her, and I developed a liberal view of sexuality despite my personal choices. I’m glad for that. I think a lot of people know Madonna the party girl but in reality a lot of her music was angsty and thoughtful. I danced to “I’ll Remember” with my Aunt on my wedding day and that song still makes me cry. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/347 "2023-09-08T14:44:37Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It was non-stop Madonna, so I too came to respect her, and I developed a liberal view of sexuality despite my personal choices. Ah-_ha_! So music _does_ corrupt the youth! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/348 "2023-09-08T15:01:53Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > Ok, I have now listened to Taylor Swift for about a week on my headphones as I work from home. A couple weeks ago we had a long road trip from Chicago to Hershey, then Binghamton, and back. My youngest daughter has become a Swiftie over the summer, so I got to listen to all 10 studio albums. (Favorites for me: 1989, Red, folklore.) Actually, three of those albums I listened to on my own as part of my own independent study. As said before, she is a very good and solid songwriter, and she writes lyrics that her audience can relate to. I don’t find most of her music particularly daring musically, but it’s catchy enough and her craftsmanship is impeccable. I’d like to hear a bit more adventure, but, then again, plenty of the bands I like are of the three/four-chords and a guitar type, so I can’t really criticize slipping into harmonic cliches and chord loops. (And, hell, I like the blues, and that’s a relatively static form.) And, unlike most singers, I actually do listen to her lyrics. I’m terrible with lyrics and most of the time, I could care less about them, but her music very much draws me to her words, not just her music. (That’s definitely a “me” thing, I know.) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/349 "2023-09-08T16:27:25Z")
A not-so-bold prediction: five years from now (or less), we’ll have a thread “can someone explain the Olivia Rodrigo phenomenon to me?” Her second album _GUTS_ was released today and is even better than her amazing debut. She’s like a bad-girl version of Taylor Swift, with comparable skills in telling stories and writing catchy pop hooks, but with a hint of 90s Riot Grrrl vibes. [Here’s her album on Spotify.](https://open.spotify.com/album/1xJHno7SmdVtZAtXbdbDZp) Or just check out this banger (NSFW lyrics): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Dj9qJsJTsjQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Olivia Rodrigo - bad idea right? (Official Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj9qJsJTsjQ&t=1) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/350 "2023-09-08T16:42:57Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > She’s like a bad-girl version of Taylor Swift, with comparable skills in telling stories and writing catchy pop hooks Funny thing about that… > **[Deja Vu (Olivia Rodrigo song)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deja_Vu_(Olivia_Rodrigo_song))** > > "Deja Vu" (stylized in all lowercase) is a song by American singer-songwriter Olivia Rodrigo. It was released on April 1, 2021, through Geffen and Interscope Records, as the second single from her debut studio album, Sour (2021). Rodrigo wrote the song with its producer Dan Nigro, with Taylor Swift, Jack Antonoff, and St. Vincent receiving writing credits for its interpolation of Swift's 2019 song "Cruel Summer". An incorporation of various pop sub-genres, "Deja Vu" is about heartbreak and ex... > **[1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Step_Forward,_3_Steps_Back)** > > "1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back" (stylized in all lowercase) is a song written and recorded by American singer-songwriter Olivia Rodrigo. It is the fourth track on her debut studio album, Sour, which was released on May 21, 2021, via Geffen Records. Dan Nigro produced the song. Taylor Swift and Jack Antonoff also received songwriting credits for its interpolation of Swift's 2017 song "New Year's Day". > The song's lyrics describe the harmful effects of inconsistent communication on a romantic rel... ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/351 "2023-09-08T16:58:53Z")
Oh sweet! I’ll have to check that out in a bit. I really enjoyed her first album and songs like “Brutal” kinda touched those 90s alt rock stylings I grew up with. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/352 "2023-09-08T18:27:33Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Her second album _GUTS_ was released today and is even better than her amazing debut. She’s like a bad-girl version of Taylor Swift, with comparable skills in telling stories and writing catchy pop hooks, but with a hint of 90s Riot Grrrl vibes Listened to it twice already. Goddamn, this is a solid album. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/353 "2023-09-08T22:33:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@TroutMan](#): > > > > She’s like a bad-girl version of Taylor Swift, with comparable skills in telling stories and writing catchy pop hooks > > Funny thing about that… Hah, yeah, that whole saga and the concept of appropriating “stylistic influences” versus regular plagiarism is worthy of its own thread. As Elvis Costello said when questioned about similarities in Rodrigo’s song _Brutal_ to his riff from _Pump It Up_, "it’s how rock & roll works. You take the broken pieces of another thrill and make a brand new toy. That’s what I did.” This is a good read. > **[The Olivia Rodrigo–Taylor Swift “Beef” Is Really About Something Deeper](https://slate.com/culture/2023/09/olivia-rodrigo-guts-taylor-swift-grudge-lacy-lyrics.html)** > > It’s The Anxiety of Influence: Pop Edition. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/354 "2023-09-08T23:35:29Z")
I never made the connection between the two songs. I mean, come on, it’s a little descending chromatic riff. Probably been done countless times in rock, and sounds different in her context, different vibe, different rhythm. I’m put more in the mind of Elastica with that song than Costello. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/355 "2023-09-12T02:52:51Z")
[I saw this the other day and found comedian Andrew Shultz’s explanation of Taylor Swift pretty funny.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NADD2-w1RsQ) ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/356 "2023-09-13T21:31:27Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > As Elvis Costello said when questioned about similarities in Rodrigo’s song _Brutal_ to his riff from _Pump It Up_, "it’s how rock & roll works. You take the broken pieces of another thrill and make a brand new toy. That’s what I did.” I think this is how all music works. GUTS is great. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/357 "2023-10-27T15:13:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@Danger\_Man](#): > > > > Ok, I have now listened to Taylor Swift for about a week on my headphones as I work from home. > > A couple weeks ago we had a long road trip from Chicago to Hershey, then Binghamton, and back. My youngest daughter has become a Swiftie over the summer, so I got to listen to all 10 studio albums. (Favorites for me: 1989, Red, folklore.) Actually, three of those albums I listened to on my own as part of my own independent study. > > As said before, she is a very good and solid songwriter, and she writes lyrics that her audience can relate to. I don’t find most of her music particularly daring musically, but it’s catchy enough and her craftsmanship is impeccable. I’d like to hear a bit more adventure, but, then again, plenty of the bands I like are of the three/four-chords and a guitar type, so I can’t really criticize slipping into harmonic cliches and chord loops. (And, hell, I like the blues, and that’s a relatively static form.) And, unlike most singers, I actually do listen to her lyrics. I’m terrible with lyrics and most of the time, I could care less about them, but her music very much draws me to her words, not just her music. (That’s definitely a “me” thing, I know.) At my daughter’s insistence, I’ve been listening to Taylor Swift. I’ll never be a huge fan, but she is enjoyable to listen to. I think she captures the zeitgeist of her generation very well. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/358 "2023-10-27T15:16:50Z")
It’s … uh … definitely something. It’s making ginormous bank for her: > **[Taylor Swift is now a billionaire, Bloomberg says | CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/taylor-swift-billionaire/index.html)** > > Taylor Swift has another accolade to add to her already impressive resume this year: America’s favorite pop star is now a billionaire, according to a Bloomberg analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/359 "2023-10-27T15:58:09Z")
I’m not nearly a good enough musician to understand how Blurred Lines is close enough to Marvin Gaye to justify over half its take, over five million smackeroos. Was it just a different key, or was there more to it? Was this an uninformed decision? So I don’t know how music works. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/360 "2023-10-27T16:01:15Z")
I’m sitting here right now listening to Taylor’s Version of 1989. I may not be an avid fan, but I sure act like one. Olivia Rodrigo is more my speed for modern pop stars, but I so enjoy Taylor. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/361 "2023-10-27T16:04:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m sitting here right now listening to Taylor’s Version of 1989. Me, too. That’s what reminded me to post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=19)