# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/542 "2023-11-04T19:31:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But in any case, Ray Charles didn’t write the _music_ for _GOMM_ either. Who gets the credit for the song. Ray Charles. He is the person bringing it to life. Otherwise it’s written copy. You’re dismissing every actor who ever lived because they didn’t write the script. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/543 "2023-11-04T19:35:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think snobbishness and a parochial failure of insight that one’s personal subjective preferences are not _objectively_ better are sufficient to explain it, without insinuations of misogyny. OTOH, you don’t see this kind of sneering disdain for, say, Ed Sheeran. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/544 "2023-11-04T19:41:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who gets the credit for the song. Hoagy Carmichael and Stuart Gorrell. > [@Magiver](#): > > He is the person bringing it to life That’s nice. > [@Magiver](#): > > You’re dismissing every actor who ever lived because they didn’t write the script. No, I’m saying that those actors don’t deserve Best Director or Best Screenplay or Best Picture awards. You know, that they don’t deserve accolades at _every_ level. Taylor Swift’s best hits are written or co-written by her. Hell, nowadays she directs the music videos, too. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/545 "2023-11-04T19:45:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I strongly disagree. IMO it’s a trademark of a good musician or band. If the songs don’t stand out from each other then essentially they all run together. It’s difficult to create distinct music and also maintain the band or musician’s “sound”. Which is missing the point entirely. Have you noticed that while we can’t tell (say) birds of the same species apart without great difficulty, the birds don’t seem to have any problem? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/546 "2023-11-04T19:56:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Taylor Swift’s best hits are written or co-written by her. Hell, nowadays she directs the music videos, too. This does not help to explain her popularity at all. I left out my opinion of her videos because they were not good and I don’t think they reflect on the quality of the music. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/547 "2023-11-04T19:58:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This does not help to explain her popularity at all. It wasn’t raised as evidence for her popularity. It was raised as evidence for her performance “at all levels” > [@Magiver](#): > > they were not good MMV. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/548 "2023-11-04T19:59:34Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Which is missing the point entirely. Have you noticed that while we can’t tell (say) birds of the same species apart without great difficulty, the birds don’t seem to have any problem? Would you rather listen to a bird that goes “chirp chirp” or a bird with a complex melody? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/549 "2023-11-04T20:06:43Z")
This is just silly. You don’t have multiple successful albums spanning different genres (Country, Pop, Alt/Folk, etc) by having all your songs sound the same. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/550 "2023-11-04T20:08:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Would you rather listen to a bird that goes “chirp chirp” or a bird with a complex melody? Prove objectively that Ray Charles’ songs “stand out individually from each other” more than Taylor Swift’s songs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/551 "2023-11-04T20:11:03Z")
I don’t listen to the people I mentioned up-thread (Mozart, Ray Charles, Sinead O’conner). They’re not in the genre of music I like. But every time I hear their music it’s impressively good. Which comes back to the question of the thread. I don’t get that from Taylor Swift. She’s very pretty and can carry a tune. It’s not that I dislike her but I don’t see why she’s so popular. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/552 "2023-11-04T20:16:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not that I dislike her but I don’t see why she’s so popular. This thread is full of reasons, both from fans and people who respect her even if they aren’t fans, for why she’s so popular. It’s up to you if you want to read those and say “Ok, so that’s why a bajillion people buy her albums, stream her songs, pack her stadiums even if I personally don’t connect with her music” or just keep saying “But why?” For as active as I’ve been in the thread, I don’t have any particular fondness for her music. It’s usually catchy and I don’t cringe to hear it but I’ve never actively played a song of hers or tried to hear anything by her. But I can respect what she’s doing and the number of extremely dedicated fans she has. And the number of people who act put off by how dare she be popular is just embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/553 "2023-11-04T20:41:06Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > For as active as I’ve been in the thread, I don’t have any particular fondness for her music. It’s usually catchy and I don’t cringe to hear it but I’ve never actively played a song of hers or tried to hear anything by her. But I can respect what she’s doing and the number of extremely dedicated fans she has. You have mirrored what I said. > [@Jophiel](#): > > And the number of people who act put off by how dare she be popular is just embarrassing. Nobody is saying “how dare she be so popular”. The question is WHY. The question is not about her, it’s aimed at her fans and what about her they like. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/554 "2023-11-04T20:43:55Z")
Exactly. There’s no accounting for tastes. Peeps like what they like. And that’s all there is to it. And, as a matter of fact she’s doesn’t have any control over people/fans feeling the way they do about her music. I’m sure she’s happy about it. Or was. I imagine it’s very hard work to crank out hits, have long tours and deal with the press. Being a “star” isn’t a death knell to being important, at her craft. Music fans are fickle. She’ll outlast it all or not. No way to tell. There is no answer to “Why?”. It just is. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/555 "2023-11-04T20:44:53Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > People (mostly of a certain gender and generation) are vastly underestimating the impact Taylor Swift has made in music across the past decade or so. > > I’ll leave aside the likely reasons for that. I said up thread that older men tend to view anything liked by young women as inherently frivolous. It’s kind of shocking how intensely they make that claim here, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/556 "2023-11-04T20:52:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The question is WHY. The question is not about her, it’s aimed at her fans and what about her they like. And the answer is in this thread. By the sixth post you had fans giving fairly detailed answers about why they liked her music. Five hundred fifty posts later and people are still acting like it’s an unknowable mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/557 "2023-11-04T20:56:33Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I said up thread that older men tend to view anything liked by young women as inherently frivolous that’s sexist nonsense. The Beatles were dripping with young women when they started. I was quite young at the time and saw them grow into a musical powerhouse. They have a distinct sound and yet their songs differ greatly. Ringo’s drumming is very distinctive and adds flavor to their music. They spent a great deal of time in the studio inventing new techniques in recording and it was noticeable to other major bands at the time. That’s an example of what I’m looking for from a fan of Taylor Swift. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/558 "2023-11-04T20:59:12Z")
Yes it is ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/559 "2023-11-04T21:00:18Z")
It’s always encouraging to see breakthroughs of insight. ---
**Author:** ![martyg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@martyg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martyg)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/560 "2023-11-04T21:47:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Beatles were dripping with young women when they started. The thing with the Beatles is that was always something weird for the time with each new record. They were _not safe_ in that sense. I have heard many Taylor Swift songs in passing and nothing stands out that This Is Taylor Swift at least to my ears. She’s too safe. Contrast with someone like Robbie Williams, who isn’t as popular, I know, but you know a Robbie Williams song when it starts because it has its own soundworld that is his. I was really surprised at the quality of a lot of his stuff – I find lots of McCartney echoes in him, among others. Elton John was totally and completely derivative, but you still know an Elton John song the second it starts. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/561 "2023-11-04T21:56:02Z")
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