# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/802 "2024-01-26T00:46:55Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > For a sense of how charismatic she is on stage, I don’t think this has been linked in the thread. She does a great job of talking to the audience and relating to them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/803 "2024-01-26T01:01:58Z")
In case anyone missed it, the Tiny Desk concert linked to by @MrDibble back in August is definitely worth watching. I’ll put it here because that one didn’t have a preview and you had to click through the link. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/FvVnP8G6ITs/maxresdefault.jpg "Taylor Swift: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVnP8G6ITs) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/804 "2024-01-26T02:12:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’d like to see her try out different producers to see if they could pull out more of her natural vocal talent. I have no doubt there’s a lot more to come from her. Try this beautiful track from _Midnights_, her latest - not one of the singles that gets a lot of play. The live version from _Eras_ acoustic set is on youtube - she has already been going for 2.5 hours before this, the state of her hair is a guide to where you are in the evening. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/65UDW7tzvro/maxresdefault.jpg "Taylor Swift - You're On Your Own, Kid Live The Eras Tour 4K legendado(Tradução)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65UDW7tzvro) ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/805 "2024-01-26T15:24:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > the Tiny Desk concert linked to by Thank you for reposting that, though I didn’t intend to spend my evening watching Taylor Swift videos. I’ve never seen her perform before. The large concert footage was interesting, but still not quite my thing. Get it down to just a girl and a guitar (or piano), and I was sold. Anyone who finds the albums overproduced (and I get that) should watch this or perhaps some of her other small performances. Now I’m hoping she has a grunge or punk phase. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/806 "2024-01-26T21:49:35Z")
I quite liked that. I’ve tried some of her album cuts on Youtube, and none of them grabbed me. But sit her down at a piano onstage, and I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/807 "2024-01-27T01:15:28Z")
If you’d like your mind boggled a little bit more: > Luminate reports that “1 in every 78 audio streams was a Taylor Swift song in the U.S. this year.” > **[Data: 2023 Total Music Sales and Streams](https://gloriousnoise.com/2024/data-2023-total-music-sales-and-streams)** > > The music industry likes to talk about consumption, which is another word for tuberculosis, and it makes all real music lovers gag. They talk about consumption because they don’t want to talk… In a universe of effectively infinite music streaming options, that’s pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/808 "2024-01-27T18:23:22Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > just a girl and a guitar > [@dirtball](#): > > sit her down at a piano onstage, and I’m in She worked with the legendary writer/producer of pop hits Max Martin when she moved away from country, and I think that misled some of us into thinking that in those albums she was little more than a front for Martin’s genius, as was often the case with his work. But it’s just not true - there’s recorded evidence that (for example) she had _Blank Space_ mostly worked out the first time she played it for Martin. And of course we now know from _folklore_ and all her other later work what she can do. The fact that a pretty young woman who’s obviously an incurable romantic (she gave _Romeo & Juliet_ a happy ending, FFS) wrote a lot of songs about men who broke her heart rather than trying to be uber-cool or write political protest songs has meant that many people did not pay attention. See the number of comments in this thread along the lines of “not being her target market”. But it really is worth paying attention. If you are human and not exclusively into heavy metal or Mozart you are her target market - that’s why she’s selling out football stadiums. She can be that romantic young woman, be a charismatic stage performer, and _also_ turn out to be better than Dylan. This is not manufactured. Even with a popular hit, strip out the slick production & wild music video that we know of _Blank Space_, just a a guitar and a mic and you get a better sense of who she is. This is circa 2015, less than halfway into her career. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p1Zt47V3pPw/hqdefault.jpg "Taylor performs "Blank Space" at The GRAMMY Museum") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Zt47V3pPw) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/809 "2024-01-27T18:46:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > that’s why she’s selling out football stadiums She’s selling out football stadiums to a particular demographic. Just like Elton John or Coldplay sell out football stadiums but it’s completely reasonable to not be into their music. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/810 "2024-01-27T19:10:39Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > it’s completely reasonable to not be into their music I wasn’t seeking to infringe your right to listen to whatever moves you. Just passing on my own history of (in the past) not paying much attention to her and why, and the fact that you might be missing something if you have preconceptions about her. The intense media focus on her may be offputting, but the underlying reason that she’s filling stadiums is because she is a truly remarkable songwriter and performer who speaks to people. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/811 "2024-01-27T19:29:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > the underlying reason that she’s filling stadiums is because she is a truly remarkable songwriter and performer who speaks to people Yes, I just wish she would do it in one of _my_ preferred music styles. (I know that is completely selfish, and as an artist she is free to do what she wants.) I probably should give _folklore_ a try. Maybe she’ll do a side project bluegrass quartet. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/812 "2024-01-27T19:31:52Z")
No worries, not offended or anything. Just that there’s a reason why “stadium rock” is a term – lots of acts sell out stadiums. It’s not a sign that someone is going to like the music, especially when the stadium is sold out primarily to age 14-34 white women and the listener isn’t in that demo. My wife hates Pink Floyd. There’s still one or two tracks she’ll admit to liking when she hears them but that’s more evidence that, with a large enough back catalog, you might make something work for an individual. It would be unreasonable of me to expect her to paw through the entire Pink Floyd back catalog though just to prove that maybe there’s something in there she’ll like. Most people have enough routes for music to come to them that they don’t need to put forth the effort of personally looking for a B-side from 2018 or Youtube clip that appeals to them. Saying simply that “if you’re a human, you’re her target market” is putting the burden on the individual to go find some Taylor Swift music that they like (or listen to the entire catalog before being able to make that statement). That’s not really reasonable and I think it’s fine for someone to claim to be “not into” her music while keeping an open mind for future discoveries. Or, for that matter, to “not be into” her music even if there’s a rare exception. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/813 "2024-01-27T19:39:28Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I probably should give _folklore_ a try. I think it’s worth spending $20 on a month of Disney+ and watching _Folklore: The Long Pond Studio Sessions_. There’s an interesting backstory - the album was put together at the height of the pandemic, with Swift + Antonoff + Aaron Dessner collaborating remotely. Later in 2020, they were able to get together at Dessner’s studio and play together for the first time. The movie has the entire album in live studio versions that I mostly prefer (check out the little scream before the bridge in _August_). And if you turn on the subtitles you get the lyrics (properly transcribed, not AI). But most of the tracks (without the conversations) seem to be on youtube if you search for Long Pond with the track name. Unofficial uploads but I guess Disney have decided not to pull them. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/814 "2024-01-27T20:02:49Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > My wife hates Pink Floyd… > > Saying simply that “if you’re a human, you’re her target market” is putting the burden on the individual to go find some Taylor Swift music that they like I just find this reaction a bit weird, as though I’m a family member or antisocial neighbor playing music you don’t like at full blast. I’m not sure why you think anything in this thread creates any burden on you to try to like something - _we’re_ not married! If you (like many people) have a preconception that only 14-34 White women would find her music appealing, you’re mistaken. Some of us who are not in that demographic have posted tracks that moved us to try to show why. But there’s no obligation to listen - I promise I really won’t be upset if you aren’t wearing a Swiftie friendship bracelet this time next week. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/815 "2024-01-27T20:05:51Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If you (like many people) have a preconception that only 14-34 White women would find her music appealing, you’re mistaken I’ve defended Swift many times through this thread. I just don’t think that “she fills stadiums” is a good metric that _everyone_ will like her music for reasons previously stated. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/816 "2024-01-27T20:22:24Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I probably should give _folklore_ a try. Definitely _folklore_ and also _evermore_. I’m a college/art/indie rock kind of guy, but personally prefer her pop stuff, like _1989_ and _Red_. That said, _folklore_ and _evermore_ seem to be the albums for the non-poptimists. My snobbier indie rock friends seem to love them. I need to live with those records a bit more. They’re good; I just like her poppy side better. She doesn’t have a 90s/00s rock sound yet. For that pick up Olivia Rodrigo’s _Guts_. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/817 "2024-01-27T20:40:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > personally prefer her pop stuff, like _1989_ and _Red_ Whatever one’s taste in genre of music, it’s hard not to acknowledge that _1989_ is 13 hit singles one after the other. I guess that’s what happens when you put Swift + Martin/Shellback together. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/818 "2024-01-27T20:45:36Z")
Off the topic of who should be listening to Swift’s music for a moment, Taylor Swift is currently caught up in an event where someone posted AI generated explicit photos of her on Twitter, they went trending, Twitter was slow to take them down, they’re on other sites, etc. Without going into detail, these were not “convincing” fakes (you wouldn’t think they were hacked off her iPhone) but were definitely explicit and nasty. Swift has set her sights on the AI fakes “industry” and gotten response from some members of Congress and other political folks. Given that we can’t even pass a budget, I’m not confident that we’ll see useful legislative action but, if anyone can use their outsized cultural impact to muscle it along, it would be Taylor Swift. If nothing else, having the resources to sue the pants off distributors, hosts, etc may do what Congress can’t. > **[Taylor Swift gets boost in battle against explicit AI pictures](https://www.newsweek.com/taylor-swift-ai-pornographic-images-lawsuit-twitter-x-1864248)** > > Sexually explicit AI images depicting Swift have been shared on social media, sparking widespread outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/819 "2024-01-27T20:51:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Off the topic of who should be listening to Swift’s music for a moment Perhaps we could _completely_ drop this straw man that anyone is telling anyone they _should_ do anything, or that everyone _will_ like her music. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/820 "2024-01-27T20:54:25Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Perhaps we could _completely_ drop this straw man I was literally just making a transition in topic but sure. I’m 100% fine with not devoting more Saturday afternoon to arguing (to whatever degree) about her music 👍 ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/821 "2024-01-27T20:54:49Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > watching _Folklore: The Long Pond Studio Sessions_ I put it on, and again, it’s interesting, but I don’t think I’ll ever be big fan. It doesn’t offend me, but just doesn’t quite hits the button that makes me want to turn it up, and listen again. That has to do with me, not her obvious talent. I’m not good at wording why I like music, so the best I can come up with is it’s too pretty for me. She is all sweet tones and sadness. I want grit and anger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=42)