# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/922 "2024-02-09T18:25:08Z")
Ms Swift’s determined efforts to expose the hidden agenda of players and haters are a legacy that everyone can appreciate, however they feel about her music. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/923 "2024-02-09T18:37:32Z")
I prefer the Dylan lyrics. I don’t hate the Swift lyrics. They’re o.k. I assume they’re better with the music, but just on their own, they don’t scan as well for me. I’m also a bit put off by all her bad boyfriend songs. What other subjects does she cover? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/924 "2024-02-09T18:59:37Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > What other subjects does she cover? Sexism [https://youtu.be/AqAJLh9wuZ0](https://youtu.be/AqAJLh9wuZ0) [https://youtu.be/6DP4q\_1EgQQ](https://youtu.be/6DP4q_1EgQQ) Addiction, mental illness, existential crisis [https://youtu.be/Z1yeJIn12KQ](https://youtu.be/Z1yeJIn12KQ) Her grandma [https://youtu.be/hP6QpMeSG6s](https://youtu.be/hP6QpMeSG6s) LGBT rights [https://youtu.be/Dkk9gvTmCXY](https://youtu.be/Dkk9gvTmCXY) US politics circa 2018 [https://youtu.be/EEu43GJ7xaM](https://youtu.be/EEu43GJ7xaM) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/925 "2024-02-09T19:02:40Z")
Glad to hear it. Every song anyone has ever pressed on me has been a “my ex is an a\*\*hole” song. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/926 "2024-02-09T19:27:59Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Every song anyone has ever pressed on me has been a “my ex is an a\*\*hole” song. I think literally none of the songs that anyone has linked to in this thread are in that category, unless you want to make it a catch-all for _anything_ bad happening. Even with the true “bad boyfriend” songs this is a pretty superficial read. With maybe a couple of _fuck you_ exceptions, it’s much more about scrutinizing and processing the experience, she’s constantly asking questions of herself, mocking herself, processing life. And while many of her songs are still about love and relationships in some way (isn’t that true of all music and literature?), few are now even superficially in that “bad boyfriends” category. Artists don’t emerge fully formed any more than the rest of us, so (unless you’re a teenager) it shouldn’t be a surprise that empathy with emotional experience will feel a lot stronger with a 30-year-old with than a teenager. And of course as she has matured she has got a much better at poetic abstraction of her own experience. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/927 "2024-02-09T19:36:14Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > What other subjects does she cover? [Snowmobile rides!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp1MR2WAAXY) I hate making people click to find out the punchline. _Out of the Woods_ is supposedly about a snowmobile ride she took with some guy, and they wrecked. Also allegory and stuff, but who wants depth? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/928 "2024-02-09T19:39:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Sexism > [https://youtu.be/AqAJLh9wuZ0](https://youtu.be/AqAJLh9wuZ0) > [https://youtu.be/6DP4q\_1EgQQ](https://youtu.be/6DP4q_1EgQQ) > > Addiction, mental illness, existential crisis > [https://youtu.be/Z1yeJIn12KQ](https://youtu.be/Z1yeJIn12KQ) > > Her grandma > [https://youtu.be/hP6QpMeSG6s](https://youtu.be/hP6QpMeSG6s) > > LGBT rights > [https://youtu.be/Dkk9gvTmCXY](https://youtu.be/Dkk9gvTmCXY) > > US politics circa 2018 > [https://youtu.be/EEu43GJ7xaM](https://youtu.be/EEu43GJ7xaM) Her mom’s cancer [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tMoW5G5LU08/maxresdefault.jpg "Taylor Swift - Soon You’ll Get Better (Official Audio) ft. The Chicks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMoW5G5LU08) ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/929 "2024-02-09T19:50:01Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The music is extremely competent, but not all that out of the ordinary… For me, this is the element for me that doesn’t quite turn me into a fully fledged fan of Swift. I think using David Bowie as a comparison is illustrative in this case (who I am a major fan of). Bowie and Swift are both the perfect package of voice, presence, attractiveness, writing, and industry savvy. Both also personally play instruments at a competent though rudimentary skill level. Where Bowie differs is his curation/production of using top-tier musician and production talent to elevate the final product as an entire musical experience. Swift’s studio crew feels simply color-by-numbers to me, nothing like having an Adrian Belew, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Nile Rogers, etc to shore up her weak spots. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/930 "2024-02-09T20:13:44Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Every song anyone has ever pressed on me has been a “my ex is an a\*\*hole” song. TBF yes, for a while that **was** the _caricature_ of her hits — because for a time there she had a few breakup songs that (unlike for instance the famous ones from Carly Simon or Alanis Morissette) the fans apparently found to be obvious who it was about, so of course they made a huge deal about in in all the networks, kind of to the detriment of all else. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/931 "2024-02-09T20:34:00Z")
She dated Joe Alwyn for SIX YEARS. And if some people reading this are saying “who?” or “really?” or “that long?!” you aren’t alone. She can keep her love life, if not private, at least not a media circus when she wants to. Although any time the media suspects a relationship is new, it is, for some inexplicable reason, news. (And I had to look that up because I didn’t know who she was dating before this latest media circus). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/932 "2024-02-09T20:35:32Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > What other subjects does she cover? Wishing she weren’t famous, which loops back into the last few posts before this. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4LtQxA_ooLk/maxresdefault.jpg "Taylor Swift - The Lucky One (Taylor's Version) (Lyric Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LtQxA_ooLk) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/933 "2024-02-09T20:46:22Z")
Also, revenging a murder with a murder. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IEPomqor2A8/maxresdefault.jpg "Taylor Swift - no body, no crime (Official Lyric Video) ft. HAIM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEPomqor2A8) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/934 "2024-02-09T20:53:33Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Also, revenging a murder with a murder.   That’s one of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/935 "2024-02-09T21:33:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I acknowledge that she has a legitimate desire to make music and share it with the public. But if she wanted to, I suspect she could do so in a more low-key manner. And there are probably a couple of fellas she could date who are slightly lower profile than a repeat superbowl player. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not criticizing her in any way. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > So my question - again, not intended as critical in any way Coulda fooled me. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/936 "2024-02-09T21:47:07Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > _Out of the Woods_ is supposedly about a snowmobile ride she took with some guy If you check out the 1989 tour live version of that song, she’s hella passionate about snowmobile rides. [https://youtu.be/uTs6GcImbMI](https://youtu.be/uTs6GcImbMI) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/937 "2024-02-09T22:04:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not criticizing her in any way. But as I see it, she is probably the highest profile celebrity in the world, with her every word/action treated as “news.” She is wealthy and successful enough that she could afford to conduct herself pretty much however she wishes. So, in large part, ISTM that she has chosen to conduct herself in a manner that results in her being as high profile as she is. It seems to me you don’t understand the nature of celebrity. Being popular necessarily carries with it a certain amount of being in the limelight, whatever your desire. Consider Garth Brooks, one of the highest grossing country artists ever. It’s, he managed to go low profile to raise his kids. How did he do it? He stopped making music and stopped touring. Or think of Lady Diana. Fame killed her. Her life was never her own after she married Prince Charles, and the paparazzi are notorious for being despicable. And you know why they get away with it? Because fans want to know every detail, to follow every instant and poke and prod for vicarious living. Also consider that Taylor’s theme is a personal storytelling about her own life, and as a thematic spokesperson for her generation. She speaks to the topics and life experiences her fans connect to, and that makes her fans feel necessarily more possessive of all the details of her life. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > And there are probably a couple of fellas she could date who are slightly lower profile than a repeat superbowl player. So? First off, being a celebrity means you have access to other celebrities in a way “normal” people don’t. Second, being a celebrity, especially one with a rabid fan base, makes it incredibly difficult to be with a “normal” person, because they are not prepared for the level of intrusiveness that being a celebrity brings. I’ve read Prince Harry’s book “Spare”, and unavoidable fame is a strong theme. And it absolutely played a role in destroying his two strongest relationships before Meagan Markle. So, why should Taylor care that Travis Kelce is somewhat well known. She’s a fucking superstar in her own right, and the increase in attention to her life because she’s dating a popular football player is not significantly different than if she were dating a popular actor, musician, or any other well- known public figure. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/938 "2024-02-09T22:13:37Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Consider Garth Brooks, one of the highest grossing country artists ever. It’s, he managed to go low profile to raise his kids. How did he do it? He stopped making music and stopped touring. Yeah - he was one of the folk I had in mind. Not saying TS oughta start popping out babies. But she basically is in a position where she could do ANYTHING she want. Apparnetly she wants to continue what she is doing. More power to her. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/939 "2024-02-09T22:28:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think you’ve answered your own question. If you look at the links to tracks upthread, you’ll see that they are almost all links to situations where slick production or flashy video or dramatic live performance are stripped away or much less prominent, where you can hear her unadorned songwriting and singing. If you aren’t interested in what a songwriter is communicating verbally, she’s not for you. I assume that Dylan doesn’t do much for you either. You are correct. I’ve never been a big Dylan fan. Even though a lot of my favorite music is by performers who wrote their own material, I admit to a fondness for the time before that was the norm. People often point to the Beatles as being the pioneers of this “integrated model”, but Buddy Holly and Peggy Lee were doing it earlier. I enjoy a lot of Great American Songbook material, and that was mostly written by non-performers. And sung/performed by people who didn’t write. As you note, the so-called integrated model can make for a more personal experience for an audience. But it certainly requires that the audience appreciate lyrics. My younger brother is a retired professional jazz and classical musician and arranger. His fiance’s daughter is a Taylor Swift fan, and he looked in more depth into the music. His opinion is pretty much the same as mine. FWIW, he’s not big on lyrics either. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/940 "2024-02-09T22:30:33Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Apparnetly she wants to continue what she is doing. Making music and performing? I mean, I assume it is her life’s passion. Maybe she’ll get burned out on it at some point or step away, but she’s only in her 30’s. I don’t think it at all reasonable for her to stop doing what she presumably loves, just because some people think she’s overexposed. Ultimately she has to please herself, not assorted randos like us. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/941 "2024-02-09T22:33:09Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Making music and performing? I mean, I assume it is her life’s passion. “I would love to tell you that this [the Grammy win] is the best moment of my life, but I feel this happy when I finish a song, or when I crack to code to a bridge I love, or when I’m shortlisting a music video, or when I’m rehearsing with my dancers or my band, or getting ready to go to Tokyo to play a show. For me the award is the work. All I wanna do is keep being able to do this. I love it so much, it makes me so happy.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=48)