# Can someone explain the Taylor Swift phenomenon to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 19, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339 "2023-03-19T02:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/141 "2023-03-25T20:19:50Z")
Screaming female fans have been a thing since at least The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/142 "2023-03-25T21:45:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > My only sense of her is that she has poor relationships with men and then trashes them in her music. This was certainly the narrative about her before #MeToo. But that’s been slowly changing as people started to notice the sexism and misogyny in that view. She did nothing different than myriad male singers, but they were celebrated while women were trashed. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/143 "2023-03-25T21:57:18Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > However, all you can hear in the videos is screaming female voices. One of my college jobs was as a ticket taker at a large sports/events venue. The Boy Band stadium concerts were seas of agony. There is nothing quite so overwhelming and skull-piercing as the collective shriek of 50,000 tween girls in full voice. I had several parents huddled outside of the stadium in the parking lot briefly venture closer just to ask if I could hook them up with a pair of disposable ear plugs like the ones I was wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/144 "2023-03-25T22:11:50Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > She did nothing different than myriad male singers, but they were celebrated while women were trashed. I honestly can’t think of a single example at the moment, although I’m sure there must be some. Most soured relationships seem to end up in songs that mourn the breakup but don’t trash the person, but then those are likely fictional people they’re singing about. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/145 "2023-03-25T22:14:26Z")
“Don’t think twice, It’s All Right”? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/146 "2023-03-25T22:42:32Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > “Don’t think twice, It’s All Right” Dylan has several. “Like a Rolling Stone”, “It Ain’t Me, Babe”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/147 "2023-03-25T23:43:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I honestly can’t think of a single example at the moment My first reaction is that this genre of trashing the ex in a breakup song seems more common coming from women. Last summer’s fun [_ABCDEFU_ by Gayle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaFd8ucHLuo) for example, or for a reference people on this board might be young enough to remember, the entirety of Alanis Morrisette’s _Jagged Little Pill._ But the guys do it to. One of my guilty pleasure examples, ‘Love Yourself’ (Justin Bieber, but written by Ed Sheeran) contains imo the greatest put-down ever recorded in a breakup song: “My momma don’t like you, and she likes everyone.” The song generally just completely trashes the ex-gf, and ‘love’ is clearly supposed to be read as ‘fuck’. Slagging off exes in songs is a very common thing, and the best anyone dating a songwriter of either gender should hope for is being the subject of at least as many love songs as breakup dis songs. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/148 "2023-03-25T23:49:07Z")
There’s also “Don’t Fuck With My Love”, also by Ed Sheeran, which is notable in that Ellie Goulding, the ex the song is directed at, wound up recording an answer song. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3TqGEbROFd4/maxresdefault.jpg "Ed Sheeran - Don't [Official Audio]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TqGEbROFd4) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jwV6qVg5VJg/maxresdefault.jpg "Ellie Goulding - On My Mind (Lyrics)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwV6qVg5VJg) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/149 "2023-03-26T01:06:21Z")
Yeah, lots of good examples there. I just couldn’t dredge any up at the moment. To be fair to Ms. Swift, I haven’t listened to any of her music, so I don’t know if it’s bad or good, only that she had a reputation at one point that was always being brought up by talk show hosts, comedians, etc. She’s just one of a very long list of artists that I’m unfamiliar with, as I pretty much stopped paying attention to most newer music about 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/150 "2023-03-26T02:04:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > only that she had a reputation at one point that was always being brought up by talk show hosts, comedians, etc. As a result of this thread, I did listen to some of her music. I came across this song that addresses that reputation. I like it. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p1Zt47V3pPw/hqdefault.jpg "Taylor performs "Blank Space" at The GRAMMY Museum") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Zt47V3pPw) ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/151 "2023-03-26T09:51:34Z")
I was in the pit for a Weezer show a few years ago, and I could barely hear the band for the screaming guys. Drunken thirtysomething bros, for the most part. I’ve been in Beatles-style crowds of screaming girls, but that was a new one on me. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/152 "2023-03-26T16:07:15Z")
45 year old guy, and I’d never to my knowledge heard a TS song before I watched the video for Anti-Hero and I loved it. I guess I’ve been missing something. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/153 "2023-03-26T16:15:00Z")
She’s beautiful, can sing, and has catchy, well written pop tunes. It’s a tried and true approach. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/154 "2023-05-05T20:50:43Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > 45 year old guy, and I’d never to my knowledge heard a TS song before I watched the video for Anti-Hero and I loved it. I guess I’ve been missing something. You probably have by virtue of being on Planet Earth, but likely didn’t recognize it as particularly distinct from her contemporaries like Dua Lipa, Rita Ora, Ariana Grande, Charlie XCX and others whose names sound like they are taken from an elaborate Starbucks drink. In all fairness, her new album Midnights is a bit of a darker and more melancholy sound than much of her previous work (and it’s actually pretty good). [Taylor Swift has also recently been collaborating a lot with one of my favorite indie rock bands, The National](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/05/taylor-swift-the-national-collaboration-folklore-evermore/673491/). She appears on their newest album. I mean it was one thing to have some Taylor Swift in my play lists because my daughter wants to hear Bad Blood or some other song for the umpteenth time in the car. It’s quite another to find myself actually going out of my way to listen to her music. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/155 "2023-05-07T19:11:21Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I remember Justin Bieber at one of his own concerts asking the fans to knock-off the screaming saying it was “so obnoxious”. “Irony is strong in this one.” ---
**Author:** ![Nayna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ebca7d/32.png) [@Nayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nayna)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/156 "2023-06-12T08:44:55Z")
My daughter is about 10 years younger than Taylor Swift, and she and I are big fans, have been to every Taylor Swift tour except her first, and will be at her Era’s concert this Saturday in Pittsburgh (nosebleeds purchased during the actual sale). Other than the obvious (her music and lyrics, which people like or don’t like), she and her team work exceptionally hard. The easter eggs are everywhere - in her song lyrics, in her videos, in her concert “surprise songs” and costume choices, on her social media accounts. She’s experiencing the things in her songs in real time, in front of her fans, who are familiar with the same themes in their own lives. Her six-year relationship ended at the beginning of the Eras tour, and her fans feel an incredible connection with her, as she sings the songs that she wrote about that boyfriend when they were happy, live in front of 70,000 people. She can be really unscripted on tour - she’s nerdy, and a little clumsy, and she snorts when she laughs and sometimes she cries while singing. She performs for over three hours straight, sometimes in the pouring rain, sometimes when it’s really hot out. She has a cold right now, so during her shows in Detroit she sounded congested and hoarse. And she just gets up there, and she does her job, and it feels like she’s one of us. She fights for what she believes in. At one point she lost the rights to some of her own music … so she’s in the process of recording all of those songs again. The countersuit mentioned above. Endorsing politicians she believes in, at some pretty considerable personal risk. I remember when Folklore was released in July 2020. The whole world was shut down, nobody was allowed to leave the house for school or work, LoverFest (TS’s 2020 tour) was postponed and then canceled, all of the news was sad and scary, and there wasn’t anything fun to do or to look forward to. And then one morning there was a whole brand-new album, in a completely new style, written and recorded in secret. It felt like such a gift. In her songs she references her childhood friends, and her mom, allyship with the LGBTQ+ community, current events, and all sorts of personal and shared heartbreak and happiness. It’s not all trashing ex-boyfriends. I’m living in my own little bubble of Taylor Swift fandom, and I know there are plenty of haters out there, but I really admire her. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/157 "2023-06-12T18:32:26Z")
If OP ends up liking her music, they may need some Swiftamine: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PAhAz7JU0dg/maxresdefault.jpg "Swiftamine - SNL") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhAz7JU0dg) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/158 "2023-06-12T18:36:02Z")
We like to create our own gods. While she was here in Chicago, one prime ticket sold for over $92,000! Really?! I have to laugh when people scorn those who worship a Creator and then turn around and worship humans instead. Not much has changed since the old “golden calf” days. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/159 "2023-06-12T21:38:31Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > While she was here in Chicago, one prime ticket sold for over $92,000! And to think that in 2011 I spent $80 for an eighth-row floor seat and got to high-five her when she did her walk through the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339/160 "2023-06-13T12:01:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And to think that in 2011 I spent $80 for an eighth-row floor seat and got to high-five her when she did her walk through the audience. An economic coup equivalent to the purchase of Alaska! LOL [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-the-taylor-swift-phenomenon-to-me/981339.md?page=9)