# Can someone explain to me the appeal of The Grateful Dead's music? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725 "2012-02-04T03:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/41 "2012-02-05T16:30:01Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > long time fans, and everyone else, shake their bones during the show. Oh hell yes. Me included. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/42 "2012-02-05T16:33:36Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > And what’s with this “lounge about the quad” shit? The average fan is around 50 years old with kids and a degree or two. Don’t get me wrong, there are lots of people in the scene who are burn outs on the fringes of society and they are the most visible ones. Most of us though are living a successful suburban life and are closer to retirement than college. the band has a multigenerational fanbase, though clearly most were teens and 20s in the 60s and 70s. there are children who heard their parents like the band and liked their music and if people skewed old in the 60s and 70s then their grandkids. in recent decades there seems to be a retro look back in youth and many have found the wealth of musical talent that the late 60s and early 70s had. there has been a thread or two here on that about how culture and technology produced a golden age. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/43 "2012-02-05T16:37:58Z")
I do see a lot of 20-somethings at shows these days and it makes me happy. I am 48 and I am a bit younger than the average age of the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/44 "2012-02-05T16:42:45Z")
for people who might want to see some softer music and/or very good vocals then there are the albums American Beauty Reckoning Terrapin Station (a highly produced album though done very well, very strong good vocals) during a period they would do an electric set and an acoustic set for a show. they would also do shows with three sets (long ones) with electric, acoustic, electric. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/45 "2012-02-05T16:50:57Z")
Didn’t we just have a thread where someone asked what the appeal of the Ramones could possibly be? My answer there also applies somewhat here (I quoted the John Sebastian line “It’s like trying to tell a stranger about rock n’ roll”). The Grateful Dead never did much for me, but if they strike a chord with their fans it doesn’t offend me. Talk of “art” and short attention spans on the other hand does not impress me. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/46 "2012-02-05T16:51:06Z")
I don’t know if it’s the same today, but it used to be cool to dance your way up to the front rows. The first Dead show I went to, my date said, “Let’s go up front!”, and I wasn’t sure I wanted to fight my way through the crowd. But as I followed her down towards the stage, there wasn’t any pushing or shoving or competition for a place to stand–a smile was all you needed to get a little closer. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/47 "2012-02-05T20:25:18Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > And what’s with this “lounge about the quad” shit? The average fan is around 50 years old with kids and a degree or two. Don’t get me wrong, there are lots of people in the scene who are burn outs on the fringes of society and they are the most visible ones. Most of us though are living a successful suburban life and are closer to retirement than college. “quad” as in “quadrangle shaped outdoor space”. Often found on university campuses. You weren’t 50 years old 30 years ago, were you? When I was in college in the 90s, it wasn’t uncommon to hear the Dead (along with Phish, Dave Mathews Band, Blues Traveler, Rusted Root, Allman Brothers) wafting out of dorms and fraternity houses. And it’s not a knock against the Dead or their fans. I mean unless you have something against someone blasting “Sugar Magnolia” off their roofdeck on some warm spring day. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/48 "2012-02-05T20:36:42Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “quad” as in “quadrangle shaped outdoor space”. Often found on university campuses. > > You weren’t 50 years old 30 years ago, were you? When I was in college in the 90s, it wasn’t uncommon to hear the Dead (along with Phish, Dave Mathews Band, Blues Traveler, Rusted Root, Allman Brothers) wafting out of dorms and fraternity houses. Yeah, me too in the 80’s. It’s not really relevant today though. My 17 year old nephew has never heard of the Dead. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/49 "2012-02-05T20:40:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “quad” as in “quadrangle shaped outdoor space”. Often found on university campuses. > > You weren’t 50 years old 30 years ago, were you? When I was in college in the 90s, it wasn’t uncommon to hear the Dead (along with Phish, Dave Mathews Band, Blues Traveler, Rusted Root, Allman Brothers) wafting out of dorms and fraternity houses. > > And it’s not a knock against the Dead or their fans. I mean unless you have something against someone blasting “Sugar Magnolia” off their roofdeck on some warm spring day. When I lived in the quads, in the early 2000’s, it wasn’t uncommon to hear it, or to see people drag extension cords outside and jam on similar themes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/50 "2012-02-05T21:14:54Z")
> [@Arrendajo](#): > > Ah, now it’s becoming clearer. Folk, blues, Americana and country rock are probably my least favorite genres. I like plenty of individual songs in those styles, but on the whole I don’t seek them out. So you’ve got a band whose style is an acquired taste, doing music I don’t have much appreciation for, recording without regard for production values, and given to self-indulgent noodling… well there’s your problem. If you liked those genres and liked the musical style of the Dead, especially because you’d seen a killer show and been on the right drugs… OK I can start to understand it now. > I regret never seeing a show, because I am sure I would have had a blast just taking in the scene, but I missed it and that’s that. And you probably don’t like Indian Ragas too. Long noodling relaxing sessions (usually). I disliked all those things until I was about 30, and then for some reason I just “got” it. No drugs involved. On their best nights their singing was good and everything else was fantastic. But if you go wanting to hear a hit song or several and get really pumped up, that isn’t it. American Beauty and Workingman’s Dead are collections of short songs that hit the country/blues themes, but they aren’t live concerts, which is where the Dead excelled. A typical Dead concert would have two sets and an encore (a New Year’s Eve concert might have three sets, and they loved to work on New Year’s Eve). The first set would open with a lively song (for the Dead) like Casey Jones or Franklin’s Tower and then proceed for about an hour with up to about 10 songs/instrumentals in the country/blues themes. The second set would open with something a bit more psychedelic and then move into one of their long suites, like Terrapin Station, Weather Report and they would move from movement to movement, a bit like a jazz symphony. Then they would end with a cover like Johnny B. Goode or Hey Jude or something else. Only Truckin’ and Touch of Grey were hits on the charts, and neither were among my favorites. I like Terrapin Station and the suite they usually play with it, Brown Eyed Woman (a short boppy number you might like) and Dark Star. Dark Star should only be listened to in long versions of 15 minutes or more. The short versions miss the hypnotic effect entirely. If you’ve never been to a show, go. Watching the hippie chicks wiggle is alone worth the admission price. You seldom see so many people enjoying each other’s company so much. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/51 "2012-02-06T10:44:27Z")
I’m a casual Deadhead, saw maybe 25 shows. First and foremost, they never played the same show twice. That should not be overlooked, it’s pretty incredible. When they would play one town for 3 or 4 nights, they would hardly repeat any songs… I’m not really up for the research, but I imagine that it would be nearly impossible to find a set list that they played more than once. The only constant in their shows was the drums/space section. I, for one, hated this part of the show, though it actually served as a time to gather in the hallways and discuss the first set. I’d really like to reiterate the point of no repeat performances. Each show, out of the thousands that they played, was different. I do believe that this is the one band whose mileage varies the most. ---
**Author:** ![Enlightening\_Meditation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecc23a/32.png) [@Enlightening\_Meditation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enlightening_Meditation)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/52 "2012-02-06T18:05:26Z")
True, the Dead never played the same setlist twice, and also they never played the same song the same way twice. In particular, Phil Lesh never played a bass line the same way twice among performances of a song. He had a background as a jazz trumpet player before playing bass, and this melodic improv style is a significant part of his distinct style. [Scarlet Begonias - Cornell Univ 1977](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQSeWLuU8hw) [Scarlet Begonias - London, England September 1974](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2kzuLoDqdI) [Scarlet Begonias - Oakland 1987](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0BbYvDwrF8) [Scarlet Begonias - Hartford 1990](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVhLAy4iBvQ&feature=related) [Scarlet Begonias - Springfield 1977](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHFEmMz7YUQ) [Scarlet Begonias - St. Paul 1976](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59QMDtIwb48) [Scarlet Begonias, Winterland 1978](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg-Tm7GhJQE) I can’t emphasize enough that the Dead had among the very best best sound system PAs and concert light shows in the world in the late 60 and early 70s. Sometimes the Dead really sucked for certain - out of tune guitars, incoherent or off key vocals, mistakes, but they were great much of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/53 "2012-02-06T18:35:11Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yeah, me too in the 80’s. It’s not really relevant today though. My 17 year old nephew has never heard of the Dead. You’re not doing your duty as an uncle (or possibly aunt) then, are you? 😉 My son, age 13, had heard of the Dead but had no real familiarity with them until we took him to the San Francisco Giants [Grateful Dead Night](http://rexfoundation.org/2011/06/18/sf-giants-announce-grateful-dead-night-august-9/) last year. As he was on his way back from the bathroom during the game a random fan handed him a bootleg CD of a 1974 show. He finds it to be great ‘studying music’; it’s good to have on in the background to help him be able to focus on what he’s doing. I find the Dead to be fantastic ‘background music’ as well. I can pull up a set off the aforementioned [archive.org](http://archive.org) and listen to it at work, and it just gives a nice ‘good feeling’ background to the day. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/54 "2012-02-06T19:18:51Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I never saw them live or stoned. They were a good studio band, with some great song. **Workingman’s Dead** is a great album, and **American Beauty** is nearly as good. They also had a different sound at the time - more country-tinged than most anyone else. Garcia was a fine guitarist; his voice wasn’t great, but it was serviceable. And songs like “Uncle John’s Band,” “Friend of the Devil,” “Casey Jones,” and “Dire Wolf” were and still are great music. Good music. Tolerably short and to the point. Not great. > [@](#): > > The idea that you had to be stoned to appreciate the Dead is a joke that gets less and less funny every month. It was untrue to begin with, and is based upon the fact that people have such short attention spans that they can’t understand any music that’s longer then five minutes. I think drugs might have something to do with it. I saw them live twice, once in 1970 (right after Workingman’s Dead came out) and once in 1972. The first time was a free concert at MIT before their paid concert, and they kept it short and it was pretty good. For the second, at Boston Garden, they came on after the New Riders had played for about 18 hours. After an hour or so my problem sets were beginning to look pretty good, and a bunch of us walked out. My answer to the question of what is the most pretentious and unlistenable long track ever used to be the stoned jam on **Satanic Majesties** bit this thread reminded me of **Feedback** (thanks a lot) and that wins in a stoned walk. BTW, some of my very favorite music is by Mike Oldfield, and is hell of a lot longer than 5 minutes, including **Amarok** which is one 60 minute track. Not to mention symphonies. So my musical attention span is quite fine, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/55 "2012-02-07T16:50:30Z")
This seems to be one of the recurring threads here on the Dope. Here’s one: [What was/is the appeal of Garcia and the Dead? - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452454). No point retyping what I said there, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/56 "2012-02-07T17:16:40Z")
I just turned a young guy at my work onto Traffic… I always wondered why Traffic got overlooked in that genre of jam bands… BTW… “Sugaree”… i mean… its just fuckin beautiful to me… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/57 "2012-02-07T18:21:05Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > I just turned a young guy at my work onto Traffic.. I always wondered why Traffic got overlooked in that genre of jam bands.. Now that I agree with. I listened to them when they were new, and always liked them, but for some reason I never moved an lps I had into CDs. I picked up the Best of Traffic double CD set a while ago and was just blown away all over again. It is seldom that a band has such a dramatic transformation (Mason to post-Mason) and does it so well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/58 "2012-02-07T18:40:19Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > I just turned a young guy at my work onto Traffic.. I always wondered why Traffic got overlooked in that genre of jam bands.. > > BTW.. “Sugaree”.. i mean.. its just fuckin beautiful to me… Twas the low spark of high heeled boys. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/59 "2012-02-07T19:05:16Z")
The thing about the dead is the amount of live material they have out. Say you like Dark Star. Well, you can have your pick of early '70s Dark Stars that are maybe a little more uptempo and tight or you can opt for later Dark Stars that are a little more relaxed and patiently ascend the path to ecstatic glory. Or the Scarlet Begonias that were posted up thread. Some versions are short and sweet, some the drummers get a little extra frisky so they explore _that_. When a deadhead listens to the dead they’re probably enjoying one of the hundreds of golden moments they’ve collected over the years. If someone chances into a show, they may or may not experience a lot of the chaff and get turned off (or on) by it. ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_Ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/97f17d/32.png) [@Harvey\_Ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_Ferguson)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725/60 "2012-02-07T20:40:13Z")
This thread was a good read with many good points of view. In my opinion, you either get the Dead or you don’t, no middle ground. I got them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-to-me-the-appeal-of-the-grateful-deads-music/611725.md?page=4)