# Can someone explain who Bruce is in Brittish Lineage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661 "2008-01-23T13:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/1 "2008-01-23T13:51:25Z")
We have a relative who is very into geneology - his grandfather gave him a family tree [sewn in cloth] that is mounted behind glass. It has all the coat of arms, family crests and what have you back to a guy named David the Bruce. [1200-something] Now I see there is also a Robert the Bruce and other various forms of Bruce…who is Bruce and where did the name come from? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/2 "2008-01-23T14:27:14Z")
The Bruces are from the [House of Bruce](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bruce), which originated in the Norman area of Bruis. (Now spelled Brix.) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/3 "2008-01-23T14:33:21Z")
And just because your constitution says “Brittish” doesn’t make it right :). [/obligatory pedantry] Robert the Bruce was a Scottish leader who is most famous for fighting the English at the Battle of Bannockburn - this was well before the Act of Union joined Scotland and England to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Actually, he’s probably most famous for sitting in a cave watching a spider make a web, but that story is apocryphal. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/4 "2008-01-23T14:34:29Z")
_Statutory nitpick_. That’s genealogy (widely mispronounced, at least here in the UK, as geneology, so the misspelling is understandable). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/5 "2008-01-23T14:35:58Z")
The Bruces were a Scottish feudal family, whose most famous member was [Robert the Bruce, King of Scots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_I_of_Scotland) (1274-1329). The name derives from the Norman town of Bruis, were his paternal ancestors were from. Robert I claimed the throne as a great-great-great grandson of [King David I of Scotland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_I_of_Scotland) (1083-1153). As for David the Bruce - it can’t have been David I, since he was was not a member of the Bruce family. (Robert I’s claim to the throne was via his grandmother, who was the great grandaughter of David I.) More likely your relative is referring to Robert’s son, [David II, King of Scots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_II_of_Scotland) (1324-1371), who succeed Robert I as King. If so, your relative would also be claiming descent from Robert the Bruce himself, so I’m surprised that’s not also on the genealogy. [On preview, I note that the various Wiki articles give different spelling for the French town that gave them their family name - some say “Bruis” and some say “Brieux.” Don’t know which is more accurate.] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/6 "2008-01-23T14:36:31Z")
There was a David the Bruce that was the brother of King James of Scotland. That would be my guess. Without more information “David the Bruce” could refer to several. Robert the Bruce is a Scottish Hero, you might know him from Braveheart. The movie was of course wrong in many ways. He was a Scottish King that fought King Edward. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/7 "2008-01-23T14:42:10Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] _Statutory nitpick_. That’s genealogy (widely mispronounced, at least here in the UK, as geneology, so the misspelling is understandable). [/QUOTE] It’s just occurred to me, for no particular reason other than that I’ve just swigged my morning coffee, that ‘geneology’ is a much better spelling. And it should be pronounced gene-ology (jeenolojee)… the study of genes! Dunno about genetics then. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/8 "2008-01-23T14:51:46Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] There was a David the Bruce that was the brother of King James of Scotland. That would be my guess. Without more information “David the Bruce” could refer to several. Robert the Bruce is a Scottish Hero, you might know him from Braveheart. The movie was of course wrong in many ways. He was a Scottish King that fought King Edward. [/QUOTE] I’ll have to take another look at the large genealogy to see which one it refers to. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/9 "2008-01-23T15:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] There was a David the Bruce that was the brother of King James of Scotland. That would be my guess. Without more information “David the Bruce” could refer to several. [/QUOTE] Which King James do you mean? I, II, III, IV, V, or VI? (Not VII, since I know he only had one surviving brother, named Charles.) Piper, who likes playing with Roman numerals. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/10 "2008-01-23T15:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=Nancarrow] It’s just occurred to me, for no particular reason other than that I’ve just swigged my morning coffee, that ‘geneology’ is a much better spelling. And it should be pronounced gene-ology (jeenolojee)… the study of genes! Dunno about genetics then. :shrug: [/QUOTE] It’s from Greek _genea-_ ‘race, generation’ + _-logos_ ‘that treats of’, hence the a. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/11 "2008-01-23T15:08:05Z")
Am I right in thinking that “the Bruce” is Anglicized from “de Bruis”? It is also not uncommon to see the form “Robert Bruce.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/12 "2008-01-23T15:22:44Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Which King James do you mean? I, II, III, IV, V, or VI? (Not VII, since I know he only had one surviving brother, named Charles.) Piper, who likes playing with Roman numerals. 🙂 [/QUOTE] James I. His elder brother was David, the one that starved to death in Prison. I thought I recalled him being called David the Bruce. I don’t have time to look for a cite for this. Maybe later. Jim ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/13 "2008-01-23T15:30:08Z")
Obligatory Python Reference > [@](#): > > First Bruce: Is your name not Bruce? > > Michael: No, it’s Michael. > > Second Bruce: That’s going to cause a little confusion. > > Third Bruce: Mind if we call you “Bruce” to keep it clear? /OPR ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/14 "2008-01-24T10:31:25Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] More likely your relative is referring to Robert’s son, [David II, King of Scots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_II_of_Scotland) (1324-1371), who succeed Robert I as King. [/QUOTE] But he had no known issue. [QUOTE=What Exit?] His [James I’s] elder brother was David, the one that starved to death in Prison. I thought I recalled him being called David the Bruce. [/QUOTE] Ditto. Mind you, it’s not exactly unknown for people to say that they can trace their lineage back to individuals who didn’t have any children, when what they actually mean is that they’re merely related to them. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/15 "2008-01-24T10:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > by \*\*acsenray \*\* > Am I right in thinking that “the Bruce” is Anglicized from “de Bruis”? > > It is also not uncommon to see the form “Robert Bruce.” As I understand it, “the Surname” means “the head of clan Surname”. When Robert won at Bannockburn, he was head of his clan, hence “the Bruce”. James I’s elder brother would have been head of the clan, hence also “the Bruce”. **Phlosphr** ’s relative claims to trace back to some head of the clan named David, possibly when the Bruces were the royal family. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/16 "2008-01-24T10:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=APB] Mind you, it’s not exactly unknown for people to say that they can trace their lineage back to individuals who didn’t have any children, when what they actually mean is that they’re merely related to them. [/QUOTE] … or that they have the same surname so they _must_ be a relative, even if the link hasn’t been found yet. Cazzle - descended from a Howard who all available evidence points to being an employee of [_the_ Howard family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_family) who simply took their name when a surname was needed, but whose great aunts persist in believing they share a blood connection with England’s second family. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/17 "2008-01-24T11:44:34Z")
… or when the surname happens to be a nickname, in the case of the famous guy. The castle of Javier (or Xavier), where St Francis Xavier was born, gets periodic visits from people whose lastname is Javierre and who don’t know that Francis Xavier was actually D. Francisco de Jaso y Azpilcueta. The Javierre lastname originates from Southern France and has no relationship with the Jasos or Azpilcuetas (not any more than between any two Basque families, in any case). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/18 "2008-01-24T13:36:05Z")
[QUOTE=APB] But he had no known issue. Ditto. Mind you, it’s not exactly unknown for people to say that they can trace their lineage back to individuals who didn’t have any children, when what they actually mean is that they’re merely related to them. [/QUOTE] Damn, good point. I did not realize he had no known issue. As I said, we need more information to answer the question. Jim (I hate being wrong in GQ, I try to censor myself better usually) ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/19 "2008-01-24T13:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=DrFidelius] Obligatory Python Reference /OPR [/QUOTE] _shakes fist_ The one thing I could contribute to this thread; snatched away from me by Bruce force. So unfair. I feel beaten and Bruced all over. _slinks away to the sound of hisses and Bruce_ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-who-bruce-is-in-brittish-lineage/434661/20 "2008-01-24T23:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Cat] And just because your constitution says “Brittish” doesn’t make it right :). [/obligatory pedantry] [/QUOTE] I realize I miss a whoosh now and again; however, I think you meant Declaration of Independence. Odd thing, though, is that doesn’t seem to have the misspelling. Our Constitution doesn’t mention the folks across the pond at all.