# Can someone explain why it is controversial that Obama hugged Derrick Bell? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140 "2012-03-08T12:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/161 "2012-03-16T00:12:32Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > I don’t have time to play today but here’s some things you can clear up for me; > Was Derrick Bell EVER considered a controversial figure? Not just to you but to society in general. I don’t see how the answer could that he was never controversial when back in the day The Beatles were considered controversial. > I am basing this next question on the belief that you will answer honestly that he was considered controversial. > If he was controversial then what makes him not controversial now? Do you think the Beatles are controversial now? If Breitbart’s big expose had been that Obama owned a copy of _Rubber Soul_, do you think that would be a newsworthy issue? If not, how is Derrick Bell different from the Beatles? What did Bell advocate in his day, that we should be concerned about in our day? Do you even know what was controversial about Derrick Bell? Or are you just saying that he’s controversial because someone told you he was? ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/162 "2012-03-16T13:01:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do you think the Beatles are controversial now? If Breitbart’s big expose had been that Obama owned a copy of _Rubber Soul_, do you think that would be a newsworthy issue? If not, how is Derrick Bell different from the Beatles? What did Bell advocate in his day, that we should be concerned about in our day? Do you even know what was controversial about Derrick Bell? Or are you just saying that he’s controversial because someone told you he was? Miller, That was my entire point about the Beatles, controversial in years past, totally main stream today. Can the same be said about Bell? The people who say he’s controversial blow the dust off some books he wrote and say “look here”. The people who say he’s not crontroversial say “that was a long time ago and nobody cares”. But don’t bother answering because the concensus in this thread is that if a tree falls in the forest and nobody’s around it does not make a noise. Meaning that since nobody knows who Bell is or was anything he said or wrote can not be controversial and any connection to him and the President is irrelevant. And in the future if we want to know anything about a presidential candidate we just need to read their autobiography. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/163 "2012-03-16T13:35:03Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Miller, That was my entire point about the Beatles, controversial in years past, totally main stream today. Can the same be said about Bell? > The people who say he’s controversial blow the dust off some books he wrote and say “look here”. The people who say he’s not crontroversial say “that was a long time ago and nobody cares”. > But don’t bother answering because the concensus in this thread is that if a tree falls in the forest and nobody’s around it does not make a noise. Meaning that since nobody knows who Bell is or was anything he said or wrote can not be controversial and any connection to him and the President is irrelevant, despite you’re not having any justification to do so. And in the future if we want to know anything about a presidential candidate we just need to read their autobiography. “Excuse me, sir, I’ve got that delivery of straw for you. Where would you like me to unload the truck?” Or you could just answer Miller’s questions. You seem to demonstrate little actual knowledge of Bell’s work and why some people are claiming that he was controversial, and in the next breath dismissing anyone who says he wasn’t controversial and that this is a non-issue being drummed up by the Breitbarts and Hannitys of the world to attempt to make Obama look like some crazed radical. Either present an actual argument why you think Obama’s association with Bell is any sort of issue, or admit that you’re “just asking questions” and therefore can be safely ignored. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/164 "2012-03-16T14:01:30Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > The people who say he’s controversial blow the dust off some books he wrote and say “look here”. No, the people who say he’s **not** controversial do that; see post #156. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/165 "2012-03-16T14:12:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Excuse me, sir, I’ve got that delivery of straw for you. Where would you like me to unload the truck?” > > Or you could just answer Miller’s questions. You seem to demonstrate little actual knowledge of Bell’s work and why some people are claiming that he was controversial, and in the next breath dismissing anyone who says he wasn’t controversial and that this is a non-issue being drummed up by the Breitbarts and Hannitys of the world to attempt to make Obama look like some crazed radical. Either present an actual argument why you think Obama’s association with Bell is any sort of issue, or admit that you’re “just asking questions” and therefore can be safely ignored. My answers to Millers questions; No, No, One is mainstream the other is not, Everything, When he said what he said, No. Bottomline I can never relate to what Derrick Bell went through growing up. I can appreciate and respect his views on race based on his experiences growing up. But that still does not mean they were not controversial at that time, and to some still controversial today. IMHO by the time the Y generation’s children have children he might no longer be considered controversial. Hell there are still people out there that won’t buy a Japanese built car because of WWII. Now please tell me why he’s not a controversial figure without using the line “it was a long time ago and nobody knows who he is.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/166 "2012-03-16T14:16:02Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > But that still does not mean they were not controversial at that time, and **to some** still controversial today. Hell there are still people out there that won’t buy a Japanese built car because of WWII. That silly sad fact would not make it legitimately “controversial” if Obama had hugged a Japanese industrialist. There are “some,” no doubt, to whom a clip of Obama hugging MLK would have been every bit as damning, but the less said of them the better and the less heard from them the best. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/167 "2012-03-16T14:17:28Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Now please tell me why he’s not a controversial figure without using the line “it was a long time ago and nobody knows who he is.” Because his ideas are not, not any more. “Whites will not support civil rights policies that may threaten white social status” is not a controversy, it is a commonplace, one we have seen demonstrated countless times from the 1970s onward. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/168 "2012-03-16T14:19:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, the people who say he’s **not** controversial do that; see post #156. That post subscibes to the “If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around it doesn’t make a noise” theory. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/169 "2012-03-16T14:21:31Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > That post subscibes to the “If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around it doesn’t make a noise” theory. That happens to be perfectly true, when the “noise” in question = “public controversy.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/170 "2012-03-16T14:29:42Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Meaning that since nobody knows who Bell is or was anything he said or wrote can not be controversial I would think that by definition, there can’t be a public controversy around the guy if the public has no idea who he is. I can accept that he could be controversial in academic circles - you know, where people read and debate his work rather than pointing to a couple of sentences or something as part of a debate about a third person - but an obscure figure can’t be the subject of a national controversy. As noted, this outrage is rather phony. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/171 "2012-03-16T14:50:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As noted, this outrage is rather phony. No outrage on my part. Just looking for stimulating discourse. My closest friend who had very different views of things than I do passed away recently and this is a subject we would have beat each other up over (that’s figuratively) all night and into the wee hours. If you’re not challenged you’re not growing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/172 "2012-03-16T14:54:16Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > No outrage on my part. **Breitbart’s** outrage, then, and that of everybody else who hopped on this story, is phony. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/173 "2012-03-16T15:44:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Breitbart’s** outrage, then, and that of everybody else who hopped on this story, is phony. I am not Breitbart or anyone else but me so my views are mine and not theirs. And I make no attempt to speak for anyone but myself. Perception is reality. If “Breitbart and everybody” else perceives this as a controversy then that it their reality. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/174 "2012-03-16T15:53:57Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > No outrage on my part. I was talking about the general issue, not you specifically. > [@JQPublic](#): > > Perception is reality. If “Breitbart and everybody” else perceives this as a controversy then that it their reality. That’s actually the exact opposite of how it works. Over the years plenty of TV shows and websites and other outlets have tried to generate interest by proclaiming that something is controversial before anybody knows what it is. A controversy is the _response_. If it turns out that practically nobody gives a shit, then there’s no controversy - it’s just hype. Remember how Breitbart was going around crowing about his explosive discovery about Obama’s college years? Well, this was evidently all he found: video of something that happened 20 years ago and which was aired on PBS four ago, concerning a guy the public hasn’t heard of. This thread has outlasted the “controversy” at this point. That doesn’t mean we can’t discuss it, but like I said, it indicates the public really didn’t care. If almost nobody cares, there is no controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/175 "2012-03-16T16:06:45Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > My answers to Millers questions; > No, No, One is mainstream the other is not, Everything, When he said what he said, No. > Bottomline I can never relate to what Derrick Bell went through growing up. I can appreciate and respect his views on race based on his experiences growing up.\*\* But that still does not mean they were not controversial at that time, and to some still controversial today\*\*. IMHO by the time the Y generation’s children have children he might no longer be considered controversial. Hell there are still people out there that won’t buy a Japanese built car because of WWII. > > Now please tell me why he’s not a controversial figure without using the line “it was a long time ago and nobody knows who he is.” I have not seen anyone point to anything Bell said that would be considered controversial at “that time,” “this time,” or anytime. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/176 "2012-03-16T16:12:33Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Perception is reality. If “Breitbart and everybody” else perceives this as a controversy then that it their reality. **Their** reality. They might or might not succeed in making it anyone else’s. Should they fail, the (public) controversy does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/177 "2012-03-16T16:39:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I have not seen anyone point to anything Bell said that would be considered controversial at “that time,” “this time,” or anytime. I so wanted to let this die but I can’t let this slide. ANYBODY talking about race relations in the fifties and through the sixties would have been considered a controversial figure. Especially a black lawyer working on school desegregation cases. One could argue he did more for the cause behind the scenes than Dr. King did in front. A nameless warrior is still a warrior. That’s the nice thing about having a library within walking distance of your house, what you don’t know you can learn. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/178 "2012-03-16T16:41:17Z")
Which of Bell’s writings have you read? ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/179 "2012-03-16T16:52:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Their** reality. They might or might not succeed in making it anyone else’s. Should they fail, the (public) controversy does not exist. If anyone agrees or not it’s still their reality. Ultimately I don’t think they are trying to change anyones mind, the goal is to hype up the “believers”. One side is going to latch onto anything they can the other will dismiss it out of hand. Honestly, they played this card too soon if they really wanted it to have any traction. No “controversy” lasts more than a couple weeks. Especially during March Madness. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140/180 "2012-03-16T16:55:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Which of Bell’s writings have you read? The Derrick Bell Reader. I admit I skimmed. Not my type of reading. I only read to learn when I have to, I prefer to read to escape reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-it-is-controversial-that-obama-hugged-derrick-bell/615140.md?page=10)