# Can someone explain why this is offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245 "2010-01-24T17:10:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/41 "2010-01-28T04:07:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Not even knowing about the culture, this is what I thought. People don’t like it when you represent their culture without their permission. Exactly. Cultural appropriation is bad enough. Cultural appropriation for your own gain (like world championships and Olympic medals) is even worse. But **clueless and uneducated** cultural appropriation is nothing less than a complete smack in the face. “We want the flavor of your interesting ethnic festivities, but we’re not going even going to bother putting in the work to actually learn anything about them. We’re just going to do _our_ impression of what we think they’re about.” It was cheap and tacky. If you want to borrow from something that isn’t yours, at least do it with dignity and a sense of **valuing** what it is you’re taking. This didn’t show a whit of that. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/42 "2010-01-28T04:18:12Z")
I understand where you guys are coming from, but I had one question… To the complaint that they got the dance wrong, they are _ice skating_, right? On _ice skates_? I don’t know if anyone could adequately capture the authenticity of an Aboriginal dance that way. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/43 "2010-01-28T04:22:51Z")
Traditional Aboriginal ice dancing is totally different. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/44 "2010-01-28T04:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > “It’s wasn’t our purpose that it be especially Australian, just a dance from many thousands of years ago.” [Link](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jDdAF_-tdaOqAf_gapWhvnUz6wbA). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/45 "2010-01-28T04:50:50Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > So I guess it is a bit of a sensitive issue. And don’t forget that Maori culture is rather macho, and ice dancing… is not. Remember that movie ["Once were warriors? "](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110729/) Aboriginal Australians are not Maori though so I don’t know that comparisons between Maori culture and ice skating are relevant, or have I missed your point? I’m not an Aboriginal Australian either but I don’t see that the dance is in any way “racist”, it makes no negative assumptions about someone based on race. At worst it may be culturally insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/46 "2010-01-28T07:12:12Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “It’s wasn’t our purpose that it be especially Australian, just a dance from many thousands of years ago.” > > [Link](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jDdAF_-tdaOqAf_gapWhvnUz6wbA). Yeah - hence the red loincloths, the didgeridoo, the X-ray style figure :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/47 "2010-01-28T16:12:23Z")
With this going on, I’ve wondered why a couple of US National Championship ice dance routines didn’t get the same criticism. There was this one, from Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto, that depending on who was announcing, was variously described as a Moldavian or Moldovan folk dance. Maybe they got it right? (though I didn’t care for their execution - it looked sloppy) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_4S1TC7VE8) Or this one from Meryl Davis and Charlie White, although maybe this one was given a pass because it was just so out-and-out Bollywood and not purporting to be a folk dance. Hmmm…well, this video link calls it a folk dance. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Y16VOR0yxqo/maxresdefault.jpg "Davis & White Indian Folk Dance 09 Grand Prix NHK Trophy OD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16VOR0yxqo) ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/48 "2010-01-28T16:54:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, I could see it, if the dances in question had some sort of sacred meaning. Like some non-Christians dressing up as the Pope and a Nun and dancing out an erotic version of the Mass in an ice-skating tribute to Christianity. 😉 Personally, that one I would pay to see. Watching the performance put forth by the OP, I am reminded of the comment that Jackie Robinson said when he was the guest of honor at a ballet based on a baseball game. “I am honored by the attempt, but prefer the game itself.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/49 "2010-01-28T17:38:44Z")
Indigenous peoples seem to have a rather thin skin about things. Witness all of the Native Americans trying to get sports mascots and team names changed. Ok ok, you’re right, it’s not all about honoring them, but at some point people just have to realize that unless your indigenous name is followed by an expletive, it’s perfectly harmless fun. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/50 "2010-01-28T17:54:26Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ok ok, you’re right, it’s not all about honoring them, but at some point people just have to realize that unless your indigenous name is followed by an expletive, it’s perfectly harmless fun. Except it isn’t. Thus, we have threads and issues like this. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/51 "2010-01-28T18:16:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Except it isn’t. Thus, we have threads and issues like this. I don’t really believe it. People can claim offense until the cows come home but I find it hard to fathom that the Atlanta Braves or Washington Redskins are harming Native Americans by their name. Let’s see how much they protest when a they change the name to the Washington Whiteys, or Atlanta WASPs ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/52 "2010-01-28T18:20:57Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I don’t really believe it. People can claim offense until the cows come home but I find it hard to fathom that the Atlanta Braves or Washington Redskins are harming Native Americans by their name. > > Let’s see how much they protest when a they change the name to the Washington Whiteys, or Atlanta WASPs But that’s never going to happen because white is the mainstream. Apart from a few, “People equate white with lameness” quips, is there really mainstream stereotyping of or bigotry towards white people in America because of the color of their skin? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/53 "2010-01-28T19:24:13Z")
Well ok, but how does that translate into “Braves” being bad? It’s a celebrated sports team. The only damage to the Braves is if they lose all the time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/54 "2010-01-28T20:43:31Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > With this going on, I’ve wondered why a couple of US National Championship ice dance routines didn’t get the same criticism. > > There was this one, from Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto, that depending on who was announcing, was variously described as a Moldavian or Moldovan folk dance. Maybe they got it right? (though I didn’t care for their execution - it looked sloppy) > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_4S1TC7VE8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_4S1TC7VE8) > Or this one from Meryl Davis and Charlie White, although maybe this one was given a pass because it was just so out-and-out Bollywood and not purporting to be a folk dance. > > Hmmm…well, this video link calls it a folk dance. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16VOR0yxqo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16VOR0yxqo) Maybe because neither Indians nor Moldavians are oppressed minorities in their own land, where adding cultural appropriation is just salt in the wound? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/55 "2010-01-28T22:32:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The only damage to the Braves is if they lose all the time. People who have been vilified, attacked, marginalized, excluded, and had their very existence questioned often react poorly to being reduced to a stereotype by the very folks who were oppressing them. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/56 "2010-01-30T00:04:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > People who have been vilified, attacked, marginalized, excluded, and had their very existence questioned often react poorly to being reduced to a stereotype by the very folks who were oppressing them. They can react poorly but can they point to harm? I can understand why the N word is bad, even if blacks themselves say it and there are no black slaves now. Regardless of the history, the word is a derogatory term whose use, by whites, bespeaks a level of hatred, ignorance, and willful cruelty along with arrogance and prejudice that is not there in almost any other english word On the other hand, with team names like the Braves, you can have fans saying they love their Braves. Other fans may hate them, but they hate the team, not the Native Americans themselves. So I really can’t see how having a sports mascot or team name is bad for them even if they consider it distasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/57 "2010-01-30T04:17:11Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Well ok, but how does that translate into “Braves” being bad? It’s a celebrated sports team. The only damage to the Braves is if they lose all the time. I bet there are some pretty pissed off lions in Africa. As to the OP: I don’t really find it offensive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245.md?page=2)