# Can someone help me understand this gender list? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214 "2017-01-15T08:00:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/1 "2017-01-15T08:00:34Z")
I was having an in-depth conversation with my stepdaughter about how many genders are officially recognized. With my limited experience I came up with two or three. My stepdaughter however, challenged this notion, saying that there are many more genders that exist beyond 2 or 3. So, using our combined strength in Google-Fu we looked it up and came across this relatively current article that lists a great variety of recognized genders. My question is simply this: I cannot understand a lot of the sub genders listed (example, “Non-Binary Transgender”). Can one of the wise denizens of the SD clear up what some of these mystifying labels mean? Link to [article](http://instinctmagazine.com/post/nyc-officially-recognizes-31-gender-identities-expressions). (Warning: pop up blockers do not play nice with this site) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/2 "2017-01-15T08:30:59Z")
1. That’s How many I have read, But looking at the list, iI think some of these so-called “unique” identifiers are basically synonyms of each other. Its like they opened up a thesaurus. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/3 "2017-01-15T08:39:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. That’s How many I have read, But looking at the list, > iI think some of these so-called “unique” identifiers are basically synonyms of each other. Its like they opened up a thesaurus. Yeah, after we both scanned the list we agreed that some of these terms sound suspiciously similar. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/4 "2017-01-15T09:27:39Z")
The title of the piece does say “Gender Identities _and Expressions_” (my italics) My best guess would be: Bi-Gendered - ambiguous, could mean bisexual and consistently is of one gender or the other, or it could mean capable of presenting as of either gender at any one time, without regard to sexuality Cross-Dresser - likes to wear clothing of the “opposite” gender, not necessarily very often, and without implications as to the person’s perceptions of their own gender Drag-King - woman who dresses as a man, by implication as a performance or entertainment, not necessarily implying anything about their sexuality Drag-Queen - man who dresses as a woman, by implication as a performance or entertainment, not necessarily implying anything about their sexuality Femme Queen - not sure if this means a lesbian who likes to present and behave as a male drag queen, or an ultra-feminine man in drag (i.e., one who could “pass” for a woman) - or it might be either, I suppose Female-to-Male - someone in the process of the full transition from the one gender to the other FTM -ditto Gender Bender - someone who likes to play with how they present their gender identity, mix it up a bit, not necessarily all the time, and not necessarily with any implication as to their sexuality Genderqueer - as above, but more inclined to the “weird” rather than just playing around with pre-existing gender stereotypes (e.g., in terms of clothes, hairdo, makeup, mannerisms) Male-To-Female - someone in the process of the full transition from the one gender to the other MTF - ditto Non-Op - someone who lives as though they are of the opposite gender, but without having undergone surgery Hijra - AFAIK this is a specific Indian or South Asian sort of transvestite man, who may or may not undergo surgery, but who lives as a woman, usually in a community of hijra, and may most likely support themselves as a sex-worker Pangender - someone who adopts whatever combination of gender identity and style they feel like at any given moment Transexual/Transsexual - someone at any stage of transition from one gender to another Trans Person - as above Woman Man Butch - someone who adopts a somewhat exaggerated form of stereotypically “rugged” masculinity, could be male or female, doesn’t necessarily imply anything about their sexuality Two-Spirit -not met this one - is it a sort of Native American thing? Or someone who attaches some sort of spiritual/religious significance to being capable of feeling both male and female? Trans - see Transexual, or it might be used as a generic for a whole range of these types Agender- someone who’d prefer not to be identified with any gender Third Sex - someone who is biologically an unusual mixture of male and female chromosomes, may choose to present as either but may well display some physical characteristics of whichever one they haven’t chose to present as Gender Fluid - see Pangender or Gender Bender Non-Binary Transgender - someone who adopts the opposite gender but without necessarily rejecting all the characteristics of their original gender Androgyne - might be similar to Pangender, or it might mean the same thing as Third Sex Gender-Gifted - someone who wants to emphasise that they think they have the best of whatever gender identity or identities they have adopted Femme - someone who adopts a possibly exaggerated form of stereotypical femininity, or assumed female sexual role Person of Transgender Experience - might be someone who started to transition but didn’t go the whole hog, or someone who did and doesn’t mind talking about their life in their previous gender? Androgynous - see Androgyne ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/5 "2017-01-15T09:30:05Z")
Hijra is listed but not Kathoey, Tom and Dee? Thailand objects! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/6 "2017-01-15T09:42:16Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Yeah, after we both scanned the list we agreed that some of these terms sound suspiciously similar. This isn’t a list of distinct genders. The fact they have “Female-To-Male” and “FTM” as two different entries is proof enough of that. Further, it isn’t even a list of different terms for genders, because I seriously doubt anyone thinks either “Drag King” or “Drag Queen” are genders the way the word is understood in any serious context. Quoting from the page, this is a list of 31 “gender identity and expression types” that New York City officially recognizes, and it’s apparent they tried to be as inclusive as possible. The link to the document in the linked article is broken; [here’s a fixed link to the relevant PDF](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/publications/GenderID_Card2015.pdf), which contains these definitions: > [@](#): > > **Gender Identity** : One’s internal, deeply-held sense of one’s gender as male, female, or something else entirely. A transgender person is someone whose gender identity does not match the sex they were assigned at birth. > > **Gender Expression** : External representations of gender as expressed through, for example, one’s name, pronouns, clothing, haircut, behavior, voice, or body characteristics. Society identifies these as masculine and feminine, although what is considered masculine and feminine changes over time and varies by culture. Many transgender people align their gender expression with their gender identity, rather than the sex they were assigned at birth. Finally, **the document doesn’t appear to try to list or limit the terms people can use**. It gives a list, but it appears to just be some examples: > [@](#): > > • BI-GENDERED > • CROSS-DRESSER > • DRAG KING > • DRAG QUEEN > • FEMME > • QUEEN > • FEMALE-TO-MALE > • FTM > • GENDER BENDER > • GENDERQUEER > • MALE-TO-FEMALE > • MTF > • NON-OP > • HIJRA > • PANGENDER > • TRANSEXUAL/TRANSSEXUAL > • TRANS PERSON > • WOMAN > • MAN > • BUTCH > • TWO-SPIRIT > • TRANS > • AGENDER > • THIRD SEX > • GENDER FLUID > • NON-BINARY > • TRANSGENDER > • ANDROGYNE > • GENDER GIFTED > • GENDER BLENDER > • FEMME > • PERSON OF TRANSGENDER EXPERIENCE > • ANDROGYNOUS (Typography (was worse!) in the original.) The only real statement about the laws of New York City come from this list of rights: > [@](#): > > In New York City, it’s illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity and gender expression in the workplace, in public spaces, and in housing. The NYC Commission on Human Rights is committed to ensuring that transgender and gender non-conforming New Yorkers are treated with dignity and respect and without threat of discrimination or harassment. > > This means individuals have the right to: > > • Work and live free from discrimination and harassment due to their gender identity/expression. > > • Use the bathroom or locker room most consistent with their gender identity and/or expression without being required to show “proof” of gender. > > • Be addressed with their preferred pronouns and name without being required to show “proof” of gender. > > • Follow dress codes and grooming standards consistent with their gender identity/expression. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/7 "2017-01-15T14:38:35Z")
I think there are actually almost seven billion genders. Mine is not on the list, and I doubt if there is another person on the planet whose gender does not differ from mine in some recognizable or measurable way. You can use any criteria you like to subdivide the list into categories of approximation. It is merely being argumentative to say the number of subdivisions be 2, 20, 200, or 2,000 000 000 ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/8 "2017-01-15T15:23:39Z")
I guess the trans-species folks are stuck with indigo on the rainbow flag again … ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/9 "2017-01-16T04:16:31Z")
Most of these can be looked up, although some of them have more than one definition. I’ll cherry pick a few. > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Female-to-Male - someone in the process of the full transition from the one gender to the other Or sometimes a person who has completed transition. Same applies to MTF. > [@](#): > > Gender Bender - someone who likes to play with how they present their gender identity, mix it up a bit, not necessarily all the time, and not necessarily with any implication as to their sexuality This is both used as an insult and as an identifier. It often means someone who is playing gender games for social or publicity purposes, political activism, or fetishim. Not always though. > [@](#): > > Hijra - AFAIK this is a specific Indian or South Asian sort of transvestite man, who may or may not undergo surgery, but who lives as a woman, usually in a community of hijra, and may most likely support themselves as a sex-worker Hijra typically consider themselves as third gender. It is ignorant to think of them as tranvestites (and that term is now considered offensive). There is a deeply spiritual aspect to the hijra, as well as a caste aspect, so this is a word that really transcends gender and intersects on many levels. Hijra rarely undergo any more “surgery” than ritual castration, although some have done penectomies. They do not live as women, they are hijra. I’ve met, talked, and worked with them in India, and learned much. Most Indian transgender persons I know personally have an intense loathing of the hijra of their own country, for reasons which I’d probably screw up trying to explain, not being of either specific national culture. > [@](#): > > Two-Spirit -not met this one - is it a sort of Native American thing? Or someone who attaches some sort of spiritual/religious significance to being capable of feeling both male and female? Complicated term which can mean transgender or can mean third gender, gender non-binary, or something else. It also varies in meaning by native tribe - the Sioux look at two-spirit persons differently than other peoples, for example. > [@](#): > > Third Sex - someone who is biologically an unusual mixture of male and female chromosomes, may choose to present as either but may well display some physical characteristics of whichever one they haven’t chose to present as No, the term for that is “intersex” (which I am, to a minor extent). Third sex is a term with a variety of definitions, ranging from “lesbian” to “transgender” to “third gender” to none of the ones mentioned. > [@](#): > > Non-Binary Transgender - someone who adopts the opposite gender but without necessarily rejecting all the characteristics of their original gender Not really. This is a much more complicated subject that it’s difficult to even get more than a handful of NB/NC persons to agree upon. > [@](#): > > Person of Transgender Experience - might be someone who started to transition but didn’t go the whole hog, or someone who did and doesn’t mind talking about their life in their previous gender? No, this most often is used by people who have transitioned and who only want to be thought of as their new gender, but at times must factually admit that they have undergone transition. What I also hear from friends is “I’m a man (or woman) with a transgender history.” There are so many other gendered cultures throughout the world, and I’ve been blessed with the ability to meet them. Kathoey, muxes, mahu…I think there might be 40 or 50-some regional or specific country terms known. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/10 "2017-01-16T04:50:56Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I guess the trans-species folks are stuck with indigo on the rainbow flag again … :dubious: I know this is a joke, so ha, but it’s worth pointing out that gender differences and species differences are **not** the same sort of thing. Individuals of different species are **far** more different genetically than same-species individuals of different genders are. Opposite-sex hormones can change most secondary sex characteristics so that it’s often impossible on a superficial scrutiny to tell a trans person from a cis person. But despite all the old speculations about “monkey gland” and the like, no hormonal treatment can give a human the physical characteristics of a different species. This is why the anti-trans rhetoric of _“well what if somebody identifies as a dog, do we have to respect their canine identity?”_ is so dumb. Humans can have many combinations of sex-linked gene expression, so a human being having a transgender or nonbinary form of gender identity is normal (though rare). But humans do **not** have a variety of genes from different species, so a human being sincerely identifying as a nonhuman species is pathological. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/11 "2017-01-16T14:12:52Z")
“Transvestite”, if misapplied, can be offensive, but it can also be correctly applied to mean something that doesn’t have any other better term. In short, it means a person who identifies as one gender, but who prefers to wear clothing associated with the other gender (usually a man wearing women’s clothing, because the reverse is so common as to be unremarkable). One might also make distinctions between why the person does this, though I don’t think there is any good terminology for this: Klinger’s reason for wearing dresses was not the same as Eddie Izzard’s, and neither’s reason is the same as Eric Idle’s. One might also make distinctions based on whether the relevant clothing is visible or not: A man wearing women’s underwear, for instance, versus one wearing a dress. It’s only offensive when this is confused with transsexuality (or homosexuality, or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/12 "2017-01-16T15:00:01Z")
A list of gender expressions is necessarily indefinite, in a way roughly analogous to a list of subcultures. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/13 "2017-01-16T15:38:56Z")
IMHO, what seems to be missing from this list is the fact that there are at least five different aspects of gender: genotype, phenotype, identity, presentation, and sexual orientation. For example, my genotype is XY chromosomes, my phenotype is that my body developed male sex characteristics (male genitals, coarse facial hair), and I have always identified myself as male, I almost always present as male (although I was often mistaken for a female when I was 10) and I’m attracted to females. Alternatively, even having XY genotype, if I’d had [Androgen insensitivity syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome) in the womb, I would have developed as female and probably identified as a female, presented as female, and as for sexual orientation-- who knows? i might have ended up attracted to women. Five aspects (any of which can differ from the others) means at least 2^5=32 different combinations, hence 32 genders. And it’s important to note that phenotype is a spectrum, not just binary. Quite a few babies are born with some male characteristics and some female characteristics. In a depressingly large number of such cases, doctors perform plastic surgery on the infant (obviously without the consent of the person being operated on). But I digress. There are a limited number of combinations of X and Y chromosomes, but probably everything else on that list is a continuous spectrum. So it’s not really 32 options, it’s more like infinitely many points in a 5-dimensional space. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/14 "2017-01-16T17:38:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “Transvestite”, if misapplied, can be offensive, but it can also be correctly applied to mean something that doesn’t have any other better term. In short, it means a person who identifies as one gender, but who prefers to wear clothing associated with the other gender (usually a man wearing women’s clothing, because the reverse is so common as to be unremarkable). It’s often considered offensive by the crossdressing community because of the past medicalization of the term. At a minimum it’s a gauche term to use for crossdressers (which is normally the preferred term, CD for short). YMMV depending upon culture, country, or location. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/15 "2017-01-16T18:45:08Z")
Huh, I would have thought that “transvestite” and “cross-dresser” would be exactly synonymous, being constructed from roots with the exact same meaning, just from different languages. But if “cross-dresser” is actually preferred by the relevant people, OK then. And **sbunny8** , don’t forget that while there are a limited number of possible chromosome combinations, even there there are still a lot more than two. Almost anything with at least one X will work, if the total number isn’t too high, and there’s no clear-cut limit for how many is too high. Also don’t forget about hormonal sex. You were probably lumping that in with “phenotype”, but they often mismatch. For instance, someone with AIS will often have the normal male mix of testosterone, androgen, estrogen, and progesterone (i.e., relatively more of the former and less of the latter), but will nonetheless have a female phenotype in other regards (genitals, body hair, etc.), because the body doesn’t react to the hormones in the normal ways. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/16 "2017-01-16T22:28:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Huh, I would have thought that “transvestite” and “cross-dresser” would be exactly synonymous, being constructed from roots with the exact same meaning, just from different languages. But if “cross-dresser” is actually preferred by the relevant people, OK then. Don’t worry; in about 3-7 years, a new term will probably arise. It’s a case where it’s a scientifically accurate word, and one which was used for decades, but within the last 5-10 years has suddenly become unpopular. Even medical professionals don’t seem to use it except in actual “official” diagnoses (when that happens even…of all the CDs I know, I doubt a single one has ever formally diagnosed). ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/17 "2017-01-17T03:13:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Huh, I would have thought that “transvestite” and “cross-dresser” would be exactly synonymous, being constructed from roots with the exact same meaning, just from different languages. Negro and black are also constructed from roots with exactly the same meaning, but that doesn’t mean they have the same connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/18 "2017-01-18T04:01:36Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Even medical professionals don’t seem to use it except in actual “official” diagnoses (when that happens even…of all the CDs I know, I doubt a single one has ever formally diagnosed). What kind of weird diagnosis would that be? Do they have another diagnosis for “likes to wear band T-shirts”? Sartorial preferences hardly seem like medical diagnoses. ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/19 "2017-01-18T04:26:55Z")
“Officially recognized” is an interesting term, because it’s not like there’s some official board somewhere that does or doesn’t recognize gender designations. Facebook seems to allow [at least 58 options](http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/02/13/facebook_custom_gender_options_here_are_all_56_custom_options.html), though some places cite 71. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214/20 "2017-01-18T05:41:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What kind of weird diagnosis would that be? Do they have another diagnosis for “likes to wear band T-shirts”? Sartorial preferences hardly seem like medical diagnoses. Transvestic Disorder DSM-5 302.3 (F65.1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-help-me-understand-this-gender-list/777214.md?page=2)