# Can someone justify this behavior? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288 "2017-09-02T01:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/81 "2017-09-02T21:45:48Z")
It’s not clear to me that it makes a jot of difference whether the police officer was seeking to make an illegal blood draw to “protect” someone (possibly a fellow officer), or seeking to make an illegal blood draw in order to incriminate someone. The professional duty of the nurse in either scenario is the same, and the actions of the police officer in either scenario deserve identical sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/82 "2017-09-02T21:46:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **aceplace57** , are there any other ethical rules that you think are unnecessary and should be violated willy-nilly, or just the medical ones? > > As for what to charge the officer with, in addition to false arrest, there’s also attempted assault. Poking sharp things into someone without their permission is certainly assault, and that’s what the officer was trying to do. I thought “assault” was the _attempt_, and the successful completion of the attempt was “battery.” Eh, maybe it varies by jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/83 "2017-09-02T21:50:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I thought “assault” was the _attempt_, and the successful completion of the attempt was “battery.” Yes, but the technical legal definition of assault (a credible _threat_ of violence, distinct from actual battery) is obviously different from the colloquial meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/84 "2017-09-02T21:53:27Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > No. Can you show me where I made that claim? You said: > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Again, the patient was a reserve police officer. Not only was that _why_ they were so eager to protect him, but he would have been treated with kid gloves during the illegal procedure. “… they were so eager to protect him …” Was this sarcasm I misunderstood, or did you believe their story about them doing it to protect the victim? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/85 "2017-09-02T22:01:15Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > 'Cause if there’s one thing anyone with medical experience knows - around unresponsive burn victims there’s no need to be careful at all! > [@cochrane](#): > > Only if you’re an asshole. I have an extra comb here somewhere, if you need one… ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/86 "2017-09-02T22:16:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One other point, here: The articles mentioned that the cop in question was part of the police phlebotomy unit, one of about 10 cops on the force who were trained and authorized to draw blood. Wouldn’t you think that that training would include when he’s allowed to draw blood? I mean, it’s one thing for an ordinary cop on the beat who never does blood draws to not keep abreast of the relevant laws and court decisions, but this guy wasn’t an ordinary cop on the beat: Knowing that was literally his job. It seems very unlikely to me that such (blood draw) training would not include The Law. This dude’s job is to enforce The Law. He had damn well better know an infraction when he sees one, it’s only his damn job. It seems much more likely to me that he just doesn’t give a shit what the law says. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/87 "2017-09-02T22:24:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have an extra comb here somewhere, if you need one… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/88 "2017-09-02T22:38:52Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > 😕 Yep that smiley definitely looks like someone who felt a whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/89 "2017-09-02T23:54:51Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > If a police officer shows up at your home and demands to search, but had no warrant, you throw open your doors right? Your rights don’t matter, let the courts sort out any evidence found later? Too often the answer to that question will be, “Sure, I have nothing to hide.” ☹ Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/90 "2017-09-03T00:25:32Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Yep that smiley definitely looks like someone who felt a whoosh. OK. Can someone explain what the fuck **kaylasdad** point was, then, if he indeed even has one? Because it’s still not clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/91 "2017-09-03T00:45:34Z")
That cop reminded me of the now infamous Gary Busey mugshot. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/92 "2017-09-03T01:13:58Z")
Condescending dude 10 minutes into the video, not the detective but someone else, talking to the nurse while she’s cuffed: “I appreciate that you have a _policy_, but what I was trying to tell you on the phone is the _law_.” “Your _policy_ is contravening what I need _legally_.” On camera and everything. So they’ve been doing this all along. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/93 "2017-09-03T01:18:37Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I think it is interesting to note that the nurse in question was an Olympic athlete. She was a skier in 1998 and 2002. Yes, this is a totally relevant and significant part of the story! I know, because every article I’ve read on the subject has made a conspicuous point of mentioning it! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/94 "2017-09-03T01:21:29Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, he is a trained police **flea bottomist**. I would expect the Police Department, and Detective Payne himself, would be _very eager_ to keep this fact from getting out. Hope he hasn’t posted any compromising YouTube videos! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/95 "2017-09-03T03:37:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Instead, I’m going to presume that you DO have sufficient knowledge of the law, and ask YOU which specific law the officer was FOLLOWING. No, that’s now how it works. The person making the claim has to provide the cite(s). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/96 "2017-09-03T03:44:02Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Yes, this is a totally relevant and significant part of the story! I know, because every article I’ve read on the subject has made a conspicuous point of mentioning it! Cop picked the wrong person to screw with. It’s hard to imagine a more sympathetic victim to contrast with his thuggery. Maybe if he’d roughed up someone in a wheelchair? ETA: (or a severely burned car crash victim?) ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/97 "2017-09-03T04:14:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Cop picked the wrong person to screw with. It’s hard to imagine a more sympathetic victim to contrast with his thuggery. Maybe if he’d roughed up someone in a wheelchair? ETA: (or a severely burned car crash victim?) Maybe raping a pregnant woman in order to get some pussy and a little head at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/98 "2017-09-03T04:17:46Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > OK. Can someone explain what the fuck **kaylasdad** point was, then, if he indeed even has one? Because it’s still not clear to me. Well, you responded rather seriously to a seriously sarcastic reply. You were, perhaps, “whooshed” as the sarcasm flew right over your head. Such a rush of wind would probably ruffle your hair… Necessitating a bit a grooming to once again become presentable. A comb would be helpful in said grooming. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/99 "2017-09-03T04:51:15Z")
Possible crimes he committed: false arrest, kidnapping, assault, civil rights violation under color of law. But despite that I’ll put $100 bucks on the table right now betting that the cop will not be charged with a crime and will not lose his job. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288/100 "2017-09-03T05:05:00Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It seems very unlikely to me that such (blood draw) training would not include The Law. This dude’s job is to enforce The Law. He had damn well better know an infraction when he sees one, it’s only his damn job. It seems much more likely to me that he just doesn’t give a shit what the law says. Doesn’t matter. Ignorance of the law is not a defense in court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-justify-this-behavior/795288.md?page=6)