# Can Someone prove to me that God doesn't exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042 "2001-10-02T20:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/101 "2001-10-03T18:50:43Z")
In that case I have nothing to say to you that would be appropriate outside of the PIT. And you are not worth the trouble to flame. Enjoy your ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/102 "2001-10-03T18:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > > \*\*Or are you simply making the categorical assumption that no atheist has ever truly sought God? > > \*\* > > Absolutly. \*\* But that then begs the question. Why should we? Why would you expect an atheist search for something he does not believe to exist? ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/103 "2001-10-03T19:02:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > \*\*Enjoy your ignorance. \*\* Only if you enjoy yours… ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/104 "2001-10-03T19:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > **Cyrin** is merely asking those atheists who insist on attempting to change his mind about his faith to provide proof that God does not exist. If they cannot do so, then they are no better than theists who try to change the minds of atheists without proof. **Not that either are bad, just they are equal.** _(my emphasis)_ That’s a nice sentiment, but here’s my problem with God: **Neurotik** , the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Tiny Orange Potato People got together with me and they told me some disturbing news. It turns out you’ve been having sex with some people they don’t approve of, so from now on, you’re not allowed to have sex with any of the people you want to have sex with. Luckily, they just got off the phone with your congressman, and he’s going to enact some legislation barring you from having sex. Additionally, they said they’re going to start sending people over to your house to badger you in to worshipping them. Oh, and your kids are going to have to read selected quotes from the IPU and the TOPP in school so that they, too, will be converted. I completely agree that you should be able to believe in whatever God or you want. I’m just real sick of our human rights being trampled by, in the USA, pushy Christians. So I, personally, take every opportunity to deny the existance of God. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/105 "2001-10-03T19:10:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Only if you enjoy yours… When I demonstrate the ignorance required to make categorical assumptions about the integrity and desires of every Christian in the world, I will consider your words again. Until then I grant them, and their author, the respect they merit. ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/106 "2001-10-03T19:12:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Maximum Override \* > > \*\*Um…I hope you’re not implying there is a reason God lets women get raped and lets children starve. > > > > If you are saying that God lets these things happen for a reason, then God is a sick individual…sorry. > > > > I think you need to clarify your answer. \*\* > > No clarification required. Although your statements are somewhat faulty. Do the theological reasearch before you say things like “God lets (x) happen”. That just isn’t theologically correct. \*\* Ok, I’m lost…how is it faulty? Lolo asked about rape at al. You told him, “do the research”. Could you cut down the amount of time it would take and point us to a site? It would be helpful. The reason I am asking is that I am unclear as to what you were trying to say. I’ll quote your answer to Lolo again to save time: > [@](#): > > As to your questions concerning rape and famine etc. there are numerous theological answers for all of those things. If you REALLY want answers to those questions, do some theological reasearch, I did, and I am confident you’ll find your answers I took it to mean, “God lets “X” happen for what ever reason”, you said not to. Ok, so now I am not going with what I though was implied, but your answer still leaves me in the dark, so I am sorry, but further clarification is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/107 "2001-10-03T19:13:54Z")
**Çyrin** , You say that if one seeks God, he will make himself known. OK. I sought God as a youth, found him, and was a Christian for a number of years. Then last year I began researching the Bible, its origins, and (long story short) came to the conclusion that God is indeed a myth invented by us humans to explain that which we didn’t \ don’t understand. **I** sought God… I found him… then I realized he didn’t exist. What say you? And what makes you so certain that you won’t someday come to the same conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![DaveX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@DaveX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveX)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/108 "2001-10-03T19:16:35Z")
If god exists, he sure isn’t answering his phone. ---
**Author:** ![Lolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@Lolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lolo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/109 "2001-10-03T19:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > > \*\*Or are you simply making the categorical assumption that no atheist has ever truly sought God? > > \*\* > > Absolutly. \*\* NONSENSE! Pure, unadulterated nonsense. By that same rationale we atheists might strongly suggest you haven’t looked anywhere hence your attachment to an invisible deity. ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/110 "2001-10-03T19:18:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maximum Override \* > \*\* > > But that then begs the question. > > Why should we? Why would you expect an atheist search for something he does not believe to exist? \*\* I don’t EXPECT anything of the sort, I firmly believe that it would be beneficial to your cause as Children of God who belong in Heaven with your heavenly Father… but as Morpheus once said “I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it.” I am just sharing my beliefs, take that knowledge and do with it whatever you will. What makes me worth more than you that I should expect anything? > [@](#): > > \*\*In that case I have nothing to say to you that would be appropriate outside of the PIT. And you are not worth the trouble to flame. \*\* Ignorance is an appearance. I believe one thing you believe another. We both present our beliefs and they contradict. I believe you’re ignorant to the truth and you feel the same way. Somehow I’m not quite sure how this makes me deserving of insults which are “fit for the pit”. In the words of Moxy Fruvous “What makes a person so poisonous righteous, that he’d think less of anyone who just disagrees?” ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/111 "2001-10-03T19:26:11Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I don’t EXPECT anything of the sort, I firmly believe that it would be beneficial to your cause as Children of God who belong in Heaven with your heavenly Father… but as Morpheus once said “I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it.” I am just sharing my beliefs, take that knowledge and do with it whatever you will. What makes me worth more than you that I should expect anything? \*\* This is getting too heated. (I have a feeling the pennies will be flying over the wall soon. 😃 ) I am not questioning your beliefs, just asking questions and following the thread. I understand that you feel it would be benificial for all to seek God and I would never even try to convince you otherwise. I wasn’t meaning you personally were expecting that of anyone. I know you better than that. 😉 I meant ‘you’ as in believers in general. ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/112 "2001-10-03T19:37:34Z")
**Mars Horizon** , I am truly sorry that you have lost your faith. I can only think that you came across some evidence (be it fact or not, it is irrelevant) which changed your mind. Fine, but just because you were deceived by Satan into a declaration of his non-existence doesn’t mean he isn’t there. You found Him, and now you say you lost Him? How can you say you EVER found Him if now He doesn’t exist. **Davex** , Sure he is answering His phone, but He doesn’t answer it with “hello”. He picks up, listens and answers you on His own time (well God doesn’t experience time but indulge me here) and according to His own will. He is God after all, He does know best. **Lolo** , I make those statements based upon Biblical Principal (see **Mars Horizon** post) **Maximum** , I don’t know any sites where you can do some reliable theological research, I have never used the inter-net for such purposes. Your best bet would be to go to the source, the Bible. Read, ask questions (preferably to Men of the cloth as opposed to Dopers, no offence) Read some more ask more questions, If it’s going to be a life changing process, personally I wouldn’t want to go through it alone staring at a computer screen. **Everybody** , I don’t have all the answers. I wish I did and I wish that I could effectively communicate them to everyone. But I can’t. I move to get back to the origin of this post. Can it be proven that God does not exist? No. Can it be proven that he does? Well i would say yes, you all would disagree, and we would be right back here… ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/113 "2001-10-03T19:41:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* > **Maximum** I never said Santa didn’t exist and I never said TOPP didn’t exist. What I did say is that I haven’t experienced them and therefore cannot draw any conclusions concerning their existence. God on the other hand I have experienced and therefore draw a certain conclusion concerning His existence. > > If someone says to me that they met Santa Clause and truly believes it, then I would probably weigh the benefits of finding such an entity and put a due amount of effort into finding said entity. Since I can find no conceivable benefit for finding Santa, I probably wouldn’t look to hard. Finding God on the other hand has numerous benefits, which is why I seriously looked for Him. Conceivable benefit? **DUH!!!** One word, **Çyrin** : _ **PRESENTS** _. Hell yeah, I believed in Santa. I was young and impressionable and he kept showing up every year with more toys for me. There was no way I was going to even question his existence. And then I got a little smarter and some things didn’t quite fit into place. Our chimney led directly into a wood stove, in which no fat man could fit, even if he was fireproof. So maybe he came in the door at my house. That’s fine. But how could he visit all the homes celebrating Christmas in one night, even allowing for time zones? Why did he have the same handwriting as my mom? How come that He-Man playset had a partially scratched off price sticker from K-Mart on it? Is he making toys or just buying them off the shelf now? So I figured out that Santa was just a myth and that I had bought into big-time. Luckily, I realized all the contradictions and then applied Occam’s Razor: maybe instead of a omniscient jolly old guy, those presents came from my parents. They were always hanging around me; of course they knew what toys I liked. And it didn’t hurt that they were there to “proofread” my letter to Santa. And all that naughty and nice crap was just them bribing me to be a good kid. Yeah, I saw physical manifestations of Santa’s existence, but there are simpler explanations of how those presents got there. Yeah, it felt good to think there was a guy coming Christmas Eve to bring me stuff, but I feel the same way about the UPS guy now; it’s a pretty pedestrian feeling. **Çyrin** , it looks to me like your experience with God consists of a bored uncle, a not uncommon coincidence, and a reassuring feedback loop. I know somebody who dreamed about her grandmother the night the grandmother died, and she chalks that up to ghosts or the collective unconscious or something, not God. Look, if you want to make Pascal’s wager, that’s fine by me and it even seems pretty smart. But you have to admit that your personal experience is pretty weak proof, and that saying “God works in mysterious ways” when prayers don’t work or bad things happen to innocent people is a total cop out. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/114 "2001-10-03T19:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Çyrin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > > \*\*Or are you simply making the categorical assumption that no atheist has ever truly sought God? > > \*\* > > Absolutly. \*\* So _this_ is where the stereotype of the “arrogant close-minded Christian fundamentalist” comes from! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/115 "2001-10-03T19:55:16Z")
But you object to the catagorical assumption that all believers are delusional, right? Nice that you want others to accept your experience as a truthful account while you accuse them of lying about thiers. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/116 "2001-10-03T20:00:03Z")
“What makes a person so poisonous righteous?” In this case, I would say “certainty”. Among other things, it appears to hamper reading comprehension. **Cyril** , you do not merit my scorn because we disagree. You merit my scorn because you embrace blind prejudice. You merit my scorn because you confuse confidence with knowledge. You merit scorn because you cast scorn, casually and apparently without a moment’s reflection, upon any human being who has asked the same question as you but found a different answer. ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/117 "2001-10-03T20:00:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*So _this_ is where the stereotype of the “arrogant close-minded Christian fundamentalist” comes from! > > :rolleyes: \*\* I am only arrogant because I am convicted in my beliefs. I am not close minded whatsoever, but thanks for the drive-by Psyche evaluation. “Fundamentalist”!!! Well that just hurts. How dare you place me in the same stereotype as those who say the earth is only 6,000 yr. old? If you’re an atheist (not a Strong atheist but one who has a lack of belief) then you’re the arrogant one. Your no better than me, your thoughts hold no more value than mine because you don’t believe in anything that holds you to any one opinion. So maybe I am arrogant! Better to have an opinion, than to completely avoid the issue with belief in nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/118 "2001-10-03T20:00:44Z")
But you object to the catagorical assumption that all believers are delusional, right? Nice that you want others to accept your experience as a truthful account while you accuse them of lying about thiers. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/119 "2001-10-03T20:05:02Z")
> [@](#): > > So maybe I am arrogant! Better to have an opinion, than to completely avoid the issue with belief in nothing. Did I mention “embrace blind prejudice?” ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042/120 "2001-10-03T20:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > \*\*“What makes a person so poisonous righteous?” > In this case, I would say “certainty”. Among other things, it appears to hamper reading comprehension. > > **Cyril** , you do not merit my scorn because we disagree. > You merit my scorn because you embrace blind prejudice. > You merit my scorn because you confuse confidence with knowledge. > You merit scorn because you cast scorn, casually and apparently without a moment’s reflection, upon any human being who has asked the same question as you but found a different answer. \*\* No human being can give merit for scorn. “Judge, lest not ye be judged” It’s a sound principal. Why can’t you just take my opinon as such, just my opinion. You have the right to think and feel and act anyway you want, I don’t mind that you feel scornful towards me. I love you as a brother because I think every human regardless of their actions deserves love. If you have a problem with that, i am truly sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-prove-to-me-that-god-doesnt-exist/85042.md?page=7)