# Can someone summarize this Trump campaign/deep state/informant kerfuffle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 22, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595 "2018-05-22T00:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/61 "2018-05-24T13:45:41Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > James Clapper, Obama’s errand boy, admits to spying on The View. > > [Clapper: Trump Should Be "Happy" That The FBI Was "Spying" On His Campaign | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/05/22/clapper_trump_should_be_happy_that_the_fbi_was_spying_on_his_campaign.html) If we are allowed to say the opposite of what actually happened, I’m going to maintain that James Clapper was never on the View, or any other TV program. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/62 "2018-05-24T13:50:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If we are allowed to say the opposite of what actually happened, I’m going to maintain that James Clapper was never on the View, or any other TV program. No, no, no. He meant that Clapper spied on the View. Right? There is some serious illegal shit going on during that show!! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/63 "2018-05-24T13:55:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, no, no. He meant that Clapper spied on the View. Right? There is some serious illegal shit going on during that show!! Too bad Sam Clovis didn’t go on the View to say, “I think the proper term is not informant,… I’m not going to name the individual, I know exactly who it is … but I will say this: That person had nothing to do with the campaign. They were not part of the campaign.” Funny how the MAGA crowd won’t listen to the co-chairman of Trump’s campaign that the source had nothing to do with the campaign. So much for being a mole. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/64 "2018-05-24T14:00:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So, **F-P** , what do you have to say about GQ’s heavily cited piece? Looks OK. If you feel that article has a bearing on anything I’ve said here - as suggested by your question - then you need to be more specific as to what that is. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/65 "2018-05-24T14:45:00Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > James Clapper, Obama’s errand boy, admits to spying on The View. > > [Clapper: Trump Should Be "Happy" That The FBI Was "Spying" On His Campaign | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/05/22/clapper_trump_should_be_happy_that_the_fbi_was_spying_on_his_campaign.html) BEHAR: “So I ask you, was the FBI spying on Trump’s campaign?” CLAPPER: “No, they were not.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/66 "2018-05-24T15:37:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Looks OK. > > If you feel that article has a bearing on anything I’ve said here - as suggested by your question - then you need to be more specific as to what that is. Like pretty much totally disproving the innuendo about the ‘deep state mole’ (I have trouble writing that with a straight face) that you repeated as if it might have even the slightest grain of truth to it? Providing a step-by-step walkthrough of how Pubbie pundits are deliberately using it, as they quite often do, to put forth a conspiracy theory that their leader isn’t an incompetent boob, it’s just that there are dark forces out to get him. Oh, and of course, Obama. Like that. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/67 "2018-05-24T15:42:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Like pretty much totally disproving the innuendo about the ‘deep state mole’ (I have trouble writing that with a straight face) that you repeated as if it might have even the slightest grain of truth to it? I’ve not said anything in this thread about a “deep state mole” or anything which could be reasonably interpreted as meaning that. I did use the term “deep state” at one point - sorry if that set you off. > [@](#): > > Providing a step-by-step walkthrough of how Pubbie pundits are deliberately using it, as they quite often do, to put forth a conspiracy theory that their leader isn’t an incompetent boob, it’s just that there are dark forces out to get him. > > Oh, and of course, Obama. > > Like that. None of this has any connection to anything I’ve said here. This type of thing illustrates the difficulty of serious discussion about these matters. Too much straw-manning and misattribution. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/68 "2018-05-24T15:55:29Z")
Oh really? Sorry, but you don’t get to change what’s there in black and white. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s very hard to know what the investigation was based on, because no one with any authority has addressed this in a comprehensive manner. The original media spin (IIRC) was that it was the dossier, then it was Papadopoulus blabbing to a Australian diplomat, now it seems that the earliest interest (in the form of this informant) predated the diplomat. > > What adds to the suspicion is that both the dossier and the [Australian diplomat](http://thehill.com/376858-australian-diplomat-whose-tip-prompted-fbis-russia-probe-has-tie-to-clintons) have connections to Clinton/DNC. > > In the particular case of the latest incident, much of the detail is very unclear as it’s an emerging story. But one thing that struck [some people](https://theintercept.com/2018/05/19/the-fbi-informant-who-monitored-the-trump-campaign-stefan-halper-oversaw-a-cia-spying-operation-in-the-1980-presidential-election/) as odd is the fierce resistance on the part of the FBI and DOJ to releasing his identity on security grounds, when that person turns out to have been pretty well known as a long time intelligence-connected guy. This suggests that the FBI/DOJ were covering for something, and deepens suspicion of what that might be. > > Of note: I don’t know if anyone is claiming that the FBI investigation was done “for partisan campaign advantage”, but even if people are claiming that, that’s not the sole relevant claim. The more reasonable claim, ISTM, is that it was undertaken by deep state people who were fiercely opposed to Trump and therefore predisposed on that basiss to find grounds for investigation even if that would not have spurred an investigation by unbiased people. A basically straight transcription of the story the GQ article debunks. But you were ‘just sayin’,’ right? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/69 "2018-05-24T16:18:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > A basically straight transcription of the story the GQ article debunks. If you think those are the same, then that pretty much says it all. See my prior post. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/70 "2018-05-24T17:27:11Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > James Clapper, Obama’s errand boy, admits to spying on The View. > > [Clapper: Trump Should Be "Happy" That The FBI Was "Spying" On His Campaign | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/05/22/clapper_trump_should_be_happy_that_the_fbi_was_spying_on_his_campaign.html) BEHAR: So I ask you, was the FBI spying on Trump’s campaign? CLAPPER: No, they were not. They were spying on — a term I don’t particularly like — but on what the Russians were doing. Trying to understand were the Russians infiltrating, trying to gain access, trying to gain leverage or influence, which is what they do. BEHAR: Well, why doesn’t [Trump] like that? He should be happy. CLAPPER: He should be. SPYING ON THE RUSSIANS? HOW DARE THEY!!! I’m getting a case of the vapors. Anyone have a fainting couch I can borrow? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/71 "2018-05-24T17:28:42Z")
Its a Scooby play, they will pull the mask off Mueller, and it turns out to be Hillary all along! They are looking for One Thing which will totally and utterly discredit _everything_, so that they win. Its the Long Bomb Hail Mary Pass from your own ten yard line with five seconds on the clock! Trouble is, they are behind 60-zip. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/72 "2018-05-24T17:56:03Z")
So, how is it that there is a briefing of Republican-only officials with a second briefing of a mixed group? If the Justice Department is going to talk about what is going on, how can it be a one party event? EDIT: I just saw that Schiff has been added. I still don’t understand how the initial plan was to first brief Republicans only. How can that happen? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/73 "2018-05-24T17:58:08Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I still don’t understand how the initial plan was to first brief Republicans only. How can that happen? It means it’s all partisan political theater, not a genuine and substantive attempt to explore and share evidence, and that the Dems changed from disdaining it to calling the Republicans on their little game. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/74 "2018-05-24T18:11:19Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > James Clapper, Obama’s errand boy, admits to spying on The View. > > [Clapper: Trump Should Be "Happy" That The FBI Was "Spying" On His Campaign | Video | RealClearPolitics](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/05/22/clapper_trump_should_be_happy_that_the_fbi_was_spying_on_his_campaign.html) If you think that’s shocking, wait until I tell you that THE FBI WAS INVESTIGATING A POLTICIAN WHO WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT! It’s true! Despite no evidence ever turning up of criminality, they were actively, openly, conducting a criminal investigation (because that’s what the FBI does…investigates crimes) that impacted a presidential campaign. Aren’t you outraged on her behalf? Or are you OK with the FBI following up on leads? Which side is it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/75 "2018-05-24T18:36:41Z")
(golf clap) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/76 "2018-05-24T18:42:18Z")
Wait, there’s good news! Trump is awarding a Medal of Honor for bravery in Afghanistan! “No, Mr. President, that’s not how this goes, you put the Medal on _him_, sir. He doesn’t put it on you…” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/77 "2018-05-24T19:40:43Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > If you think that’s shocking, wait until I tell you that > > THE FBI WAS INVESTIGATING A POLTICIAN WHO WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT! > > It’s true! Despite no evidence ever turning up of criminality, they were actively, openly, conducting a criminal investigation (because that’s what the FBI does…investigates crimes) that impacted a presidential campaign. > > Aren’t you outraged on her behalf? Or are you OK with the FBI following up on leads? > > Which side is it? Oh, snap! ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/78 "2018-05-24T22:33:34Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > BEHAR: So I ask you, was the FBI spying on Trump’s campaign? > > CLAPPER: No, they were not. They were spying on — a term I don’t particularly like — but on what the Russians were doing. Trying to understand were the Russians infiltrating, trying to gain access, trying to gain leverage or influence, which is what they do. > > BEHAR: Well, why doesn’t [Trump] like that? He should be happy. > > CLAPPER: He should be. > > SPYING ON THE RUSSIANS? HOW DARE THEY!!! I’m getting a case of the vapors. Anyone have a fainting couch I can borrow? Why didn’t Clapper infiltrate the Democratic National Party and the Clinton campaign? They got got hacked by the Russians not the RNC and Trump. The RNC and Trump didn’t need protection from the Russians because they are not incompetent like Hillary and Poedesta. The idiot in charge of the DNC server ignored repeated attempts by the FBI to warn them of the situation. Besides, there’s evidence it was an inside job. Seth Rich anyone? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/79 "2018-05-24T22:49:06Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Why didn’t Clapper infiltrate the Democratic National Party and the Clinton campaign? They got got hacked by the Russians not the RNC and Trump. The RNC and Trump didn’t need protection from the Russians because they are not incompetent like Hillary and Poedesta. The idiot in charge of the DNC server ignored repeated attempts by the FBI to warn them of the situation. Besides, there’s evidence it was an inside job. Seth Rich anyone? Because, unlike Trump, her campaign wasn’t actively seeking out Russian contacts. And, Seth Rich? Really? Wait… I can already hear you typing a post about Comet Ping Pong. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595/80 "2018-05-24T23:37:42Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Why didn’t Clapper infiltrate the Democratic National Party and the Clinton campaign? They got got hacked by the Russians not the RNC and Trump. Because that is not a logical thing to do. If somebody is a victim of a crime, the initial suspicion is not usually that they did it to themselves. > [@](#): > > The RNC and Trump didn’t need protection from the Russians because they are not incompetent like Hillary and Poedesta. The idiot in charge of the DNC server ignored repeated attempts by the FBI to warn them of the situation. Are you really going to act this unaware of a very real and plausible scenario: The FBI was investigating Russian spies, and in so doing heard Trump affiliates on their wiretaps and saw Russian agents working in his campaign. Really, just, for a split second, consider that possibility, no matter how remote. Then, in a gesture of good faith, please explain how you would expect them to respond. Be sure to be mindful of the likelihood that whatever you do will be spun as corrupt, biased, and itself illegal. > [@](#): > > Besides, there’s evidence it was an inside job. Seth Rich anyone? Besides, there’s evidence the moon is fake. Cheese anyone? Same impact on the debate. And a timely reference, too. Just [two days ago](http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/21/media/seth-rich-brad-bauman-lawsuit/index.html), the Rich family spokesman filed a federal defamation suit against this type of bullshit. Go ahead, cite your sources. Let’s see if they are currently being sued. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-summarize-this-trump-campaign-deep-state-informant-kerfuffle/814595.md?page=5)