# Can the Chinese get to the moon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631 "2008-01-30T20:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/1 "2008-01-30T20:04:54Z")
The single thing that’s absolutely guaranteed to re-spark US interest in the space program is other countries succeeding in their own programs. Fear of being perceived as “second best” would dynamite the Federal budgetary flood gates. Congresscritters, in their fever to be perceived as protecting American superiority, would stampede screaming to the doors of NASA to be the first to fling out buckets of cash. Anyone who couldn’t keep up with the frenzy would be trampled into a bloody pulp. I hear tell that the Chinese are gazing upward at our great natural satellite. So what are, in y’all’s opinions, the actual odds of Chinese success? I’d guess this is actually more an economics question than anything. The Chinese certainly have the will to distinguish themselves in the world as a second superpower, and being the second nation in history to send some bepantsed apes to the moon, then bring 'em back, would do quite nicely as a demonstration. The question seems to be whether their 10% annual growth can sustain itself long enough to fulfill their astronomical dreams. Can they do it? Could the Russians? If so, how long will it take? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/2 "2008-01-30T20:22:49Z")
Sure they could, with sufficient time and money. Choosing to accept higher risks than past programs would also speed things along. But if anyone actually cares about who was first to the moon, let’s settle for photos. The [Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reconnaissance_Orbiter) scheduled for launch in October '08 will be able to image the LEM lower stages that were left behind by the Apollo missions. So when that day comes, let’s all hoot and holler about how we were first. Then sit back, encourage the Chinese, and save ourselves something like $50 billion. Or better yet, spend that savings on going someplace else in (or out of) the solar system. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/3 "2008-01-30T20:24:20Z")
People have already been to the moon. They didn’t find much reason to go back. It’s not like a new world with Injuns to conquer and gold to pillage. It’s just a big ass rock without any kind of usefulness. For this reason, I don’t think we’ll see China, Russia, America, or anyone else go on another manned moon mission in the next hundred years. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/4 "2008-01-30T20:38:16Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] People have already been to the moon. They didn’t find much reason to go back. It’s not like a new world with Injuns to conquer and gold to pillage. It’s just a big ass rock without any kind of usefulness. For this reason, I don’t think we’ll see China, Russia, America, or anyone else go on another manned moon mission in the next hundred years. [/QUOTE] [Huh?](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-bush-space-0114,0,4190003.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines) > [@](#): > > In a speech at NASA headquarters, Bush outlined a new vision for a U.S. human space program critics say has been too unfocused since the end of the Apollo moon flights. Bush called for a return to the moon as early as 2015 as a stepping stone to Mars and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/5 "2008-01-30T20:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] People have already been to the moon. They didn’t find much reason to go back. It’s not like a new world with Injuns to conquer and gold to pillage. It’s just a big ass rock without any kind of usefulness. For this reason, I don’t think we’ll see China, Russia, America, or anyone else go on another manned moon mission in the next hundred years. [/QUOTE] I’ll second what **Leaffan** said, Bush has outlined a program to go to the moon and it _apparently_ has support within NASA and Congress–although some human space flight enthusiasts think the focus should be entirely on getting to Mars. I can think of a few valuable reasons to send men to the moon. For one, put some telescopes on the far side of the moon and you’ll have some extremely good views of the universe, a remotely-operated observatory on the moon (or even manned with a small support crew semi-permanently) could greatly aid our study of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/6 "2008-01-30T21:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I can think of a few valuable reasons to send men to the moon. For one, put some telescopes on the far side of the moon and you’ll have some extremely good views of the universe, a remotely-operated observatory on the moon (or even manned with a small support crew semi-permanently) could greatly aid our study of the universe. [/QUOTE] Fine for you guys, but what about people who aren’t studying the universe? When did Republicans cross over into the “let me decide how to spend your money” camp? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/7 "2008-01-30T21:20:56Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] When did Republicans cross over into the “let me decide how to spend your money” camp? [/QUOTE] The Republican party was founded in 1854. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/8 "2008-01-30T21:24:26Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] put some telescopes on the far side of the moon and you’ll have some extremely good views of the universe [/QUOTE] Not really. The moon isn’t a stable enough surface for the long-exposure imagery you’re talking about. Orbital telescopes are preferred. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/9 "2008-01-30T21:29:14Z")
The space race of the Cold War period was a real race. The Soviets put the first man-made object into orbit, the first animal, the first human astronaut, and gave the U.S. good competition for the first lunar landing. China is much richer and better developed and more technologically sophisticated now than the U.S.S.R. was then. I see no reason why they can’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/10 "2008-01-30T21:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Fine for you guys, but what about people who aren’t studying the universe? When did Republicans cross over into the “let me decide how to spend your money” camp? [/QUOTE] That’s what government’s do, period. The U.S. Government has _always_ been in that camp, since its inception as a political party the GOP has been in that camp. The difference between a Republican and a Libertarian is we are grounded in reality, we know that government has a role in our society and that government has a proper authority to collect taxes and spend that public money in a wise manner. Where we differ from our more socialist-leaning “friends” is in which manner we decide to spend that money and for what reason. I like to think we’re more focused on providing equality of opportunity than equality of result (which is what a lot of social welfare is focused on.) But no mainstream Republicans have _ever_ to my knowledge bought into the ludicrous libertarian philosophy that the government has no valid reason to collect and spend public funds. I also like to think that the GOP is more about fiscal conservatism and responsibility, in letting the economy run itself as much as possible, and in avoiding economy-hurting forms of taxation (like capital gains) and et cetera. However recent history has shown the party hasn’t kept to those things very well in the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/11 "2008-01-30T21:32:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Not really. The moon isn’t a stable enough surface for the long-exposure imagery you’re talking about. Orbital telescopes are preferred. [/QUOTE] Do tell. The far side of the moon has the massive benefit of blocking out all that pesky earthlight and other EM radiation from the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/12 "2008-01-30T21:46:21Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Not really. The moon isn’t a stable enough surface for the long-exposure imagery you’re talking about. Orbital telescopes are preferred. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t necessarily talking about long-exposure imagery. Observatories on the far-side of the moon would be ideal location for a radio telescope, in the orbit of the Earth there is significant interference from all the satellites and other signals around and from the Earth. Furthermore, a traditional optical telescope would also be effective on the moon, [this](https://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/cirr/em/6/4.cfm) NASA page explains the benefits of locating both optical and radio telescopes on the lunar surface. From that page: > [@](#): > > In addition, night time on the Moon lasts about 350 hours. This would permit scientists to watch deep space objects for very long periods, or to accumulate signals on very faint sources such as dim stars, galaxies, or planets around other stars. In contrast, the Hubble Space Telescope, NASA’s current premier telescope for space research, is in a low earth orbit some 350 km high (the moon is 450,000 km away). Sunrise and sunset are only 90 minutes apart on the HST, meaning that the dark time (the time HST is in Earth shadow) is only 45 minutes long which is a major constraint for astronomers > > Unlike orbiting spacecraft, the moon is a very large and ultra-stable platform for telescopes of any kind and has no seismic activity unless there is meteoric impact. Average ground motion on the surface is estimated to be less than 1 micron (one millionth of a meter, or about the thickness of a hair). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/13 "2008-01-30T22:00:18Z")
[QUOTE=Kendall Jackson] . . . and being the second nation in history to send some bepantsed apes to the moon, then bring 'em back . . . [/QUOTE] Oh, no! They’re thinking **much** bigger than **that!** See [here,](http://www.astronautix.com/craft/chirbase.htm) [here,](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1997747.stm) [here,](http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-00zzk.html) and [here.](http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2298) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/14 "2008-01-30T22:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] But no mainstream Republicans have _ever_ to my knowledge bought into the ludicrous libertarian philosophy that the government has no valid reason to collect and spend public funds. [/QUOTE] Maybe Republicans need to read up then, since they obviously don’t know what they’re talking about. We have nothing against collecting and spending public funds **for the purpose of securing rights and property**. You know very well that earth is the only place reachable by us that can sustain man. And we’ll be stuck here till the sun burns out or an asteroid hits us. So, how about studying hunger? How about studying injustice? How about studying how to provide a context of peace and honesty so free people can pursue their own happiness in their own way? If you want to go to the moon, then go. Who’s stopping you? But pay for it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/15 "2008-01-30T22:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You know very well that earth is the only place reachable by us that can sustain man. [/quote] True now. Not necessarily true forever, or even 50 years from now. (Remember, a **natural** environment is not the only kind that can sustain life.) [QUOTE=Liberal] And we’ll be stuck here till the sun burns out or an asteroid hits us. [/QUOTE] There is no physical reason the human race cannot survive another ten billion years – **if** we can live long enough to leave the nest. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/16 "2008-01-30T22:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] There is no physical reason the human race cannot survive another ten billion years – **if** we can live long enough to leave the nest. [/QUOTE] And go where? The moon? Are you kidding? And we may be around in ten billion years, sort of like the cock roach and crocodile are still around, but _something_ much greater will have evolved. At least hopefully. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/17 "2008-01-30T22:23:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] And go where? The moon? Are you kidding? And we may be around in ten billion years, sort of like the cock roach and crocodile are still around, but _something_ much greater will have evolved. At least hopefully. [/QUOTE] It really does matter, I think, whether that “something greater” is descended from _Homo sapiens,_ or from the raccoon rooting in that dumpster over there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/18 "2008-01-30T22:25:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It really does matter, I think, whether that “something greater” is descended from _Homo sapiens,_ or from the raccoon rooting in that dumpster over there. [/QUOTE] Why? Your body and mine will be worm guts recycled forty million times over. And our species will have produced a million more Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos. Give the 'coons a chance. They can’t do any worse. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/19 "2008-01-30T22:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Why? Your body and mine will be worm guts recycled forty million times over. And our species will have produced a million more Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos. Give the 'coons a chance. They can’t do any worse. [/QUOTE] “Racial survival is the _only_ universal morality.” – Robert Heinlein ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631/20 "2008-01-30T22:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] “Racial survival is the _only_ universal morality.” – Robert Heinlein [/QUOTE] “There is no individual thing in nature, than which there is not another more powerful and strong. Whatsoever thing be given, there is something stronger whereby it can be destroyed.” — Baruch Spinoza [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-chinese-get-to-the-moon/435631.md?page=2)