# Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504 "2017-08-13T00:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/381 "2017-11-10T17:46:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I sort of agree. The grooming and attack on a 14-year-old is categorically different from an older married dude skeeving on teenagers who are legally able to consent. > > However, you’re already seeing the people who are attacking the 14-year-old (well, now 50-something, but you know what I mean) as a liar. Establishing that this fucker had a pattern of pursuing teenagers is one piece of bolstering her claim. > > Then there’s the issue of hypocrisy. While I’m more of an issues voter than a character voter, Moore has really made a career of being a character activist. Nobody can claim at this point to vote for him because they care about sexual ethics, unless their sexual ethics condones a 30-something man cheating on his wife with teenagers. Just looking at his wikipedia page, it doesn’t look like he was married at the time, but I may not be right on the dates. And I can see where he might have a self-defense: At the time of the incident, he was a Democrat. He switch to the Republican party afterwards because of how pervy all the Democrats were!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/382 "2017-11-10T17:48:37Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I mean, not really. I suspect that the population of men who would date an 18 year old is very different from the population who would pursue a 14 year old. Of course there’s a 17 and 16 year old in there as well. We’re not jumping from “legal adult” to “Junior high student” but rather sliding down the continuum. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/383 "2017-11-10T18:04:55Z")
Here’s a hypothetical: What if Moore wins but the Senate refuses to seat him? Could the Republican governor of Alabama then appoint another senator until another special election takes place? This would be one way for the Republicans to hold onto the seat. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/384 "2017-11-10T18:08:03Z")
Just so there’s no confusion, most Christians - even evangelical ones - are creeped out and angry at the comparison to Joseph and Mary. Who, after all, were at least _married_, and married under the norms of a society _two thousand years ago_. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/385 "2017-11-10T18:13:50Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Here’s a hypothetical: What if Moore wins but the Senate refuses to seat him? Could the Republican governor of Alabama then appoint another senator until another special election takes place? This would be one way for the Republicans to hold onto the seat. Pretty sure that’s the point I made in my post #341 in this thread. And the answer is, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/386 "2017-11-10T18:14:06Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Here’s a hypothetical: What if Moore wins but the Senate refuses to seat him? Could the Republican governor of Alabama then appoint another senator until another special election takes place? This would be one way for the Republicans to hold onto the seat. My understanding is, yes. They keep the story in the news that much longer, however. I would guess there is pressure to find another way to resolve this before then, and get the mess behind them. The longer unsavory sexual antics are linked to Republicans, the worse it is for the party. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/387 "2017-11-10T18:15:21Z")
For those hopeful this will somehow lead to a Dem victory, [this is a worthwhile read](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/09/republican_voters_won_t_care_one_bit_whether_roy_moore_molested_an_underage.html) (or rant, more accurately). The typical Republican voter sees this as an attack on their side and will rally in defense. All these excuses, like those we see from **octopus** , are just subconscious rationalizations to make them feel better about their support. Whether they truly believe their own excuses is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/388 "2017-11-10T18:16:16Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I mean, not really. I suspect that the population of men who would date an 18 year old is very different from the population who would pursue a 14 year old. 18 and 14 are very different ages both physically and psychologically, and then there’s the issue of legality as well. (Lots of people would avoid doing something purely because it’s illegal). > > I’m not saying he _didn’t_ assault the 14 year old, incidentaly. Just that the fact he dated an 18 year old isn’t evidence of it. My proposal: If you take all 30yo men who would pursue a 16yo, you’ll find a greater percentage of them who would also pursue a 14yo than if you look at all 30you men as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/389 "2017-11-10T18:23:05Z")
This bears repeating: > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Let’s get one little tidbit of horseshit out of the way: Moore hasn’t had a character worth assassination for years. This is the Birther that’s been removed as a Supreme Court Justice for contempt TWICE. He’s the guy who refused visitation to a child’s mother because she was a lesbian. He advocates for the Christian version of Sharia law, skimmed more than a million dollars from a charity that didn’t even report that much in donations while using it to further political ambitions. He recently called the US an “evil empire” and praises Putin, arguing that Russian interference in the 2016 elections was the "providential hand of God”. > > Fuck Roy Moore. You left out “raging homophobe and Islamophobe”, that he’s a white supremacist and neo-Confederate, and his tendency to blame events like 9/11 and Sandy Hook on homosexuality and abortion, just to cite a few more choice bits. The amazing thing about those who have tried to defend him here by sanctimoniously demanding more evidence in the matter of his relations with the 14-year-old girl is their inability to have any perspective on the bigger picture. Proven or not, it’s pretty much _ **irrelevant** _ in the context of everything else when it comes to making a rational voting decision – just a drop in the bucket in this cesspool of moral putrescence. The other amazing thing is the prominent Alabama conservatives cited upthread who have declared that they will nevertheless vote for Moore because if they didn’t, why, they might end with a DemocRAT, which is apparently far worse than a raving loon with the ethics of a sewer rat. Such is partisan politics at its very worst. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/390 "2017-11-10T18:24:19Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > My understanding is, yes. They keep the story in the news that much longer, however. I would guess there is pressure to find another way to resolve this before then, and get the mess behind them. The longer unsavory sexual antics are linked to Republicans, the worse it is for the party. And yet, Bannon’s boys seem to be unapologetically defending him. And even if you read some of the more outspoken Repubs comments, there’s the all-important “if these allegations are proven true” clause attached to the condemnation. We all know how Republicans walked back their criticism when they came out to condemn Trump after the discovery of the Access Hollywood tape. Wouldn’t be surprised if they quietly try to forget their faux outrage this time, too. They’re probably just waiting to see if more accusers come out with more specific and corroborated evidence. But putting this aside for a moment, I mean look at what a train wreck this guy has been otherwise. A son who’s been arrested, what, 9 times now? He’s obviously not a parent of the year candidate. I wouldn’t normally blame a wayward son on a father or even make light of it, but it seems to me that if Moore were really a family man and a man of faith he’d be more interested in helping his son fly straight rather than pursuing his on personal ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/391 "2017-11-10T18:26:40Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I’m not in any way condoning what Roy Moore did in 1979. And I’m against Roy Moore becoming a Senator from Alabama, for a variety of reasons. > > BUT… > > In Alabama, what he did with the one girl appears to be a misdemeanor offense only (sexual contact with a female from 12 to 16). It MAY be that he committed the felony of luring the girl to his home to have sexual contact; I’m not familiar with the law. IF all he did was commit a misdemeanor offense, I’m thinking that Democrats howling for him to not be elected might want to re-think that moral outrage. We should define our moral outrage at kiddy diddling based on whether the state considers it a misdemeanor or felony? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/392 "2017-11-10T18:28:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Pretty sure that’s the point I made in my post #341 in this thread. And the answer is, yes. Sorry, didn’t see your earlier post. I kinda just quickly skimmed the thread for the posts that occurred right before the thread was temporarily locked. Expelling or refusing to seat Moore does help keep the news focused on Republican scandals. Plus, there is always the risk that in the next election, Moore runs as an independent, potentially splitting the Republican vote. Even better for Democrats is that the Alabama news on top of the Virginia and other election results has completely pushed Donna Brazile right out of the news. That’s good for the party as they look to recruit candidates all over the ballots throughout the USA. Not having the constant ‘DNC rigged the primaries’ bleated on the news should help with candidate recruitment who might otherwise be suspicious of the national party. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/393 "2017-11-10T18:28:51Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For those hopeful this will somehow lead to a Dem victory, [this is a worthwhile read](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/09/republican_voters_won_t_care_one_bit_whether_roy_moore_molested_an_underage.html) (or rant, more accurately). The typical Republican voter sees this as an attack on their side and will rally in defense. All these excuses, like those we see from **octopus** , are just subconscious rationalizations to make them feel better about their support. Whether they truly believe their own excuses is immaterial. Yeah, I’m afraid this is the reality we’re dealing with here. What matters to Republicans is winning, and to be more specific, winning means getting ‘their’ country back from African Americans, Latinos, career women, gays, non-Christians, and liberals of all stripes. And they will do whatever it takes to win. There is no floor with these people. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/394 "2017-11-10T18:33:24Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For those hopeful this will somehow lead to a Dem victory, [this is a worthwhile read](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/09/republican_voters_won_t_care_one_bit_whether_roy_moore_molested_an_underage.html) (or rant, more accurately). The typical Republican voter sees this as an attack on their side and will rally in defense. All these excuses, like those we see from **octopus** , are just subconscious rationalizations to make them feel better about their support. Whether they truly believe their own excuses is immaterial. Since I didn’t offer any excuses for anyone I’m not sure what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/395 "2017-11-10T18:38:29Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Sorry, didn’t see your earlier post. I kinda just quickly skimmed the thread for the posts that occurred right before the thread was temporarily locked. > > Expelling or refusing to seat Moore does help keep the news focused on Republican scandals. Plus, there is always the risk that in the next election, Moore runs as an independent, potentially splitting the Republican vote. > > Even better for Democrats is that the Alabama news on top of the Virginia and other election results has completely pushed Donna Brazile right out of the news. That’s good for the party as they look to recruit candidates all over the ballots throughout the USA. Not having the constant ‘DNC rigged the primaries’ bleated on the news should help with candidate recruitment who might otherwise be suspicious of the national party. No worries, I’ve done that enough times. I was thinking on all this last night… First, let’s just get it out of the way that Moore is a turd of a human being with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that he is a hypocritical child molester to boot comes as no surprise. On the basis of simple decency and morality, he should be excluded from seeking public office. Full stop. From a political point of view, I agree it benefits Dems – but it might well benefit Republicans even more (Moore?). If Moore stays in the race and wins, then they have the option to deny him the seat and ask the Republican Governor to appoint a Republican replacement more to McConnell’s liking. (Republican win!) If Moore drops out of the race, then a McConnell choice can step in as a write-in candidate. (Republican win!) The worst that can happen to them is for Moore to stay in the race, someone like Strange to step up on his own steam as a write-in, and a Dem to win because the Republicans split the vote… and even with all this unfolding, it’s still a pretty heavy lift in Alabama. However, with recent developments, I think Dems should bend more effort in this race. Agree completely with your observations re Donna Brazile. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/396 "2017-11-10T18:46:55Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For those hopeful this will somehow lead to a Dem victory, [this is a worthwhile read](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/09/republican_voters_won_t_care_one_bit_whether_roy_moore_molested_an_underage.html) (or rant, more accurately). The typical Republican voter sees this as an attack on their side and will rally in defense. All these excuses, like those we see from **octopus** , are just subconscious rationalizations to make them feel better about their support. Whether they truly believe their own excuses is immaterial. When Hastert finally got busted, I had Republicans who just wanted to debate the semantics of whether or not a coach sexually abusing 14 year olds counted as “molestation” (which isn’t a legal term in Illinois anyway) and the good ole “Well now, _technically_, he’s a hebephile, not a pedophile…” folks working under the same general blanket as “Just asking questions”. I’m not under any illusion that the Alabama Republican voters give a shit if Moore was diddling 14 year old girls or not. They don’t. You have to _pretend_ like you care of course but, at the end of the day, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/397 "2017-11-10T18:51:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said they should have come forward earlier. That’s not asking for evidence. Reserving judgement until more evidence comes forward is fine, but that’s not what you did - you asked why they didn’t come forward earlier, this implicitly attacking their credibility for coming forward now. > > Shame on you and anyone else who attacks women for nothing more than coming forward. That’s all well and good. Really, I am not being snarky. Women have many valid reasons for not coming forward sooner. But surely you can see how your standard creates an equally terrible problem as well: At any time someone can come forward and make an uncorroborated false allegation and leave the accused with no way of defending himself/herself. Given the state of politics today, a person with evil intent can torpedo any candidate with such an allegation if people are not only conditioned to believe it, but are attacked for not believing it. It is a difficult issue, but what if this woman is indeed lying? Is it fair to Roy Moore to convict him in public opinion (and, again, it isn’t really relevant what one’s opinion is of Moore outside of this context) based upon a person’s word? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/398 "2017-11-10T18:54:45Z")
I feel more confident since this story was obviously well researched and put out by the Washington Post. The reporters know that a successful and true story could earn a pulitzer prize. A story quickly proven false will have them begging for a job working the overnight shift at a 7-11. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/399 "2017-11-10T19:00:43Z")
My reasonable hope is that enough Alabama Republicans either stay home or go for the write in guy that they split their vote and the Dem wins. Expecting any modern Republican to be revolted by anything Moore does or did or says is unreasonable. He is utterly hateful, and sadly, so are they. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/400 "2017-11-10T19:02:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s all well and good. Really, I am not being snarky. Women have many valid reasons for not coming forward sooner. > > But surely you can see how your standard creates an equally terrible problem as well: At any time someone can come forward and make an uncorroborated false allegation and leave the accused with no way of defending himself/herself. > > Given the state of politics today, a person with evil intent can torpedo any candidate with such an allegation if people are not only conditioned to believe it, but are attacked for not believing it. > > It is a difficult issue, but what if this woman is indeed lying? Is it fair to Roy Moore to convict him in public opinion (and, again, it isn’t really relevant what one’s opinion is of Moore outside of this context) based upon a person’s word? But it’s not just “this woman” coming forward, is it? And it’s not just one person’s word, either, is it? Her mother corroborates her story. Two childhood friends with whom she spoke of the incident at the time, have verified and corroborated her story, one of them even identifying Moore by name. They all went on the record and subjected themselves to this kind of disgusting, “just asking questions” crap. So why is her word so hard to accept? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=21)