# Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504 "2017-08-13T00:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/721 "2017-11-15T20:19:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > By “we all” I meant “we _all_”. \*All \*Americans, Republicans included. By discussing them as the enemy who must be overcome instead of fellow citizens who must be persuaded, you fall into the same trap they already have. If your point was that a Senator Roy Moore and all of his embarrassments would finally be the lance for the boil and then the infection would be cured, I would support your long-term intent, if not your expectations. I haven’t dehumanized them. But neither will I pretend we’re dealing with something that falls within normal parameters. I know a few Alabamians. They have been brainwashed by Fox “News” and the whackadoodle far right influences for so long, I don’t believe they are persuadable. I’ve mentioned in other threads that I think the one good thing that has come out of Trump and his ilk attaining power is that it shines a very stark light on what the choices actually are. So yes; call it a lance for the boil. I don’t think people will become persuaded until they see the actual consequences of their politics and subsequent choices. I wish it could be otherwise, but I imagine you know as well as anyone what it’s like to have a productive, factual, evidence-based discussion with these folks. Perhaps the reality will snap them out of their fervor. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/722 "2017-11-15T20:26:20Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > If the good people of Alabama elect Moore in the full knowledge of who and what he is, I say they deserve him. _Show me the way to the next little girl Oh, don’t ask why Oh, don’t ask why_ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/723 "2017-11-15T20:35:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think I agree with an expulsion for non-political acts before the person is a Senator. I don’t think that’s a road anyone wants to drive down. I was okay with it until I read [what Josh Marshall had to say about it](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/dont-be-so-quick-to-expel-roy-moore-from-the-senate). He changed my mind. > [@Josh Marshall](#): > > The party at issue here isn’t Moore. It’s Alabama voters. The polls released since this scandal broke do not show them in a very good light at all. But voters have a perfect right to be terrible. Alabama voters know who and what this guy is. If they choose him to represent them in the Senate, they know what they’re choosing. This is how democracy is supposed to work, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/724 "2017-11-15T20:36:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Yes, we can. Why is it, do you suppose, that McConnell didn’t want Moore in the first place? He’s a batshit crazy uncontrollable loose cannon, that’s why. > > Moore isn’t going to vote in lockstep with McConnell. He’s going to continually embarrass and tarnish the McConnell Republican brand. He’s going to gum up their legislative agenda with attempts to sponsor bills that legislate religion and generally be a royal pain in McConnell’s ass. He’ll be another maverick (comes complete with cowboy hat!), except with the added feature of pedophilia. He’s going to foil McConnell’s legislative plans as sure as any Democrat. He will be at the forefront of what voters are thinking about when they head to the mid-terms. > > For Dems, it really doesn’t matter how it goes, unless McConnell/Trump are somehow able to slide another Republican into Moore’s slot – which they should fight tooth and nail. I’m sure Sessions is being pressured like mad, but I’ll bet Alabamians won’t have it even if Sessions were to agree. I imagine Sessions knows this better than anyone, which is why he’s staying put despite having a really shitty job at this point. > > The best chance Dems have to put Jones into the seat is if Jones is running against Moore. > > And realistically, what can Dems do about it, anyway? Their first chance at taking back any real power is the mid-terms. If McConnell calls for a vote for expulsion in advance of the election, I hope Dems tell him to pound sand for calling for such a vote prematurely and abstain. > > Pass the popcorn, please. 🙂 That’s not McConnell’s worry. Don’t forget, McConnell is shit useless at actually getting legislation passed. His only significant victory in the last decade was turning the Republican Party into a group of whiny brats that stomp their feet and cry when they don’t get everything they want. Three shots at healthcare, and nada. Tax reform stands a good chance of being dead in the water at this point. Everyone talks about Trump having zero legislative victories at this point - the same can be said of McConnell. McConnell can’t worry about legislation - he just needs to keep getting Republicans elected. “Republicans support a pedophile” can discourage a lot of conservative voters. McConnell doesn’t care about Moore’s policies - he cares about protecting the (R). He’s the Roger Goodell of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/725 "2017-11-15T20:37:37Z")
Roy Moore’s lawyer was on MSNBC. [It did not go well](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/roy-moore-lawyer-brings-msnbc-anchor-ali-velshi-s-background-n821121): > [@](#): > > Anchor Stephanie Ruhle asked Garmon, “Why would he need permission from any of these girl’s mothers if they aren’t underage?" > > “Sure, that’s a good question. Culturally speaking, and obviously there is differences, I looked up Ali’s background there and wow that is awesome that you have got such a diverse background,” Garmon replied. “And it is really cool to read through that.” > > “What does Ali’s background have to do with dating a 14-year-old?” Ruhle asked. > > Garmon began to reply that he was not finished with the context of his remark, when Ruhle interjected, “Please answer: What does Ali Velshi’s background have to do with dating children, 14 year old girls?” > > “In other countries, there is an arrangement through parents for what we would refer to as consensual marriage,” Garmon said. > > “Ali is from Canada,” Ruhle said. > > “I understand that. And Ali’s also spent time in other countries,” Garmon said. > > “So have I,” Ruhle responded. > > “Which I’ve gone to. So it’s not a bad thing,” Garmon said. > > “I don’t know where you are going with the Trent,” Velshi said ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/726 "2017-11-15T20:51:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Monica Lewinsky is not remotely close to being the worst of Bill Clinton’s sexual predations. She’s the one we all remember, because he successfully smushed the reputations of the women he’d assaulted before he was President. How do we know that? Has anyone done an authoritative dive into the allegations of Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broaddrick? I’m not seeing a link here. In the absence of such an accounting, all I have is that the ‘hunting of the President’ wingnuts thought that Lewinsky was their ticket to bringing Clinton down, not Jones or Willey. And when Broaddrick’s allegations became public shortly after the Senate voted not to convict on the impeachment charges, the wingnuts didn’t make much of them, pretty much dropping the whole issue. Finally, I don’t think it was a positive testimonial to the integrity of any of the three to let themselves be used as political weapons against _Hillary_ Clinton, who after all was an aggrieved party herself with respect to Bill’s affairs and attempted affairs. They who claimed to be the victims of sexual assault sat there quietly while Donald Trump stalked Hillary Clinton around that stage, taking his side against her. I am willing to look at all the evidence if someone’s willing to pull it together, or if someone already has. But absent that, I’m going to remain skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/727 "2017-11-15T20:53:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Show me the way to the next little girl > Oh, don’t ask why > Oh, don’t ask why_ The title, of course, is “Alabama Song.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/728 "2017-11-15T20:58:06Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > How do we know that? Has anyone done an authoritative dive into the allegations of Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broaddrick? I’m not seeing a link here. For me, when fans of Bill Clinton say things like this, they sound just like fans of Roy Moore. If people gave the same credence to accusations against BC that they do accusations against Republicans, he would have been destroyed. Instead, he’s still admired. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/729 "2017-11-15T21:01:19Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Roy Moore’s lawyer was on MSNBC. [It did not go well](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/roy-moore-lawyer-brings-msnbc-anchor-ali-velshi-s-background-n821121): I’m shocked that Roy Moore’s lawyer is a racist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/730 "2017-11-15T21:06:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m shocked that Roy Moore’s lawyer is a racist. Canada is very exotic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/731 "2017-11-15T21:10:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For me, when fans of Bill Clinton say things like this, they sound just like fans of Roy Moore. If people gave the same credence to accusations against BC that they do accusations against Republicans, he would have been destroyed. Instead, he’s still admired. Some equivalences are false, and that includes yours. Who are the examples of underage girls who Bubba went after? Or adults who did not give consent (if you choose to believe Broaddrick you’re calling her a perjurer, yanno, and please be specific about the Jones case)? When did Bubba get caught perving on 14 year olds? Just what do you think is comparable, other than your desire for it to be so? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/732 "2017-11-15T21:11:59Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For me, when fans of Bill Clinton say things like this, they sound just like fans of Roy Moore. If people gave the same credence to accusations against BC that they do accusations against Republicans, he would have been destroyed. Instead, he’s still admired. I know what the allegations are against Moore. They’ve been linked to here in this thread. The best he seems to have are that the instances of actual assault didn’t happen. But did he spend his thirties hitting on barely legal high school girls? It’s about 99.999% certain. Now, why should I give similar credence to dimly-remembered accusations against Bill Clinton from 20 years ago, with the offhand remarks of Dopers for added support? That just isn’t enough. Like I said: > [@](#): > > Has anyone done an authoritative dive into the allegations of Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broaddrick? I’m not seeing a link here. > \ > I am willing to look at all the evidence if someone’s willing to pull it together, or if someone already has. Maybe the evidence is really pretty damning. But nobody here is linking to it. So what am I supposed to do - put full credence in those offhand remarks and dimly-remembered accusations? This is the Dope, dammit. No. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/733 "2017-11-15T21:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Republican Roy Moore is trailing Democrat Doug Jones by 12 points in the Alabama special Senate election, according to a poll conducted by the National Republican Senatorial Committee after five women accused Moore of pursuing them as teenagers. > > Jones led Moore 51 to 39 percent, according to the survey taken Sunday and Monday. The NRSC withdrew its support for Moore after the Washington Post published the first allegations against Moore on Thursday, and the group’s chairman, Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) said Moore should be expelled from the Senate if he wins on Dec. 12. > > The poll shows a dramatic turn against Moore in Alabama: In early October, a committee poll had him leading by 16 points, and a survey early this month had him up by 9 points. Moore’s favorability numbers also tanked, from 49 percent in early October to 35 percent in the NRSC’s latest poll. [https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/15/roy-moore-doug-jones-poll-244937](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/15/roy-moore-doug-jones-poll-244937) Is this poll credible? The NRSC says Moore should drop out, then – hey, presto! – they produce a poll showing a 21-point swing to Jones over the course of two weeks. I’d love to believe that public opinion has turned so decisively against him, I’m just skeptical. Anybody have a read on how seriously to take these numbers? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/734 "2017-11-15T21:23:27Z")
I’ll add that I hope someone trustworthy _does_ gather together every bit of what we know about Bill Clinton’s interactions with those three women, so that we can settle this issue as much as it can be settled. If the evidence supports their claims, then we ought to know about it, just as we know about so many other men whose histories as abusers have come to light lately. If it doesn’t, let’s get that out there too. Let’s give him his day of reckoning, whatever comes out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/735 "2017-11-15T21:30:45Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … The best chance Dems have to put Jones into the seat is if Jones is running against Moore. … Or even better, if Jones is running against _both_ Moore and a write-in candidate (Sessions or otherwise). > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m shocked that Roy Moore’s lawyer is a racist. The clip is worth a watch to see an archetypal white-supremacist in action: the guy is oozing with condescension and contempt for the two Inferiors he’s having to deal with (a woman and a non-white guy). A real slime-ball. I’ve been watching Ali Velshi for years and always admire his smarts and his calm demeanor; it was never more impressive than during that interview. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/736 "2017-11-15T21:32:08Z")
I hope that was sarcasm, **RTF**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/737 "2017-11-15T21:38:16Z")
Power to the people includes the power to be wrong. If no way is found to shame Judge Teenyboink away from the election, then let it go forward. And if the people of Alabama vote him into office, he should be seated. Makes me wish there were a good herbal remedy for nausea. Oh, wait!.. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/738 "2017-11-15T23:42:18Z")
Another accuser. This one says he groped her in 1991: [http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/360579-new-moore-accuser-says-that-he-groped-her-in-1991](http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/360579-new-moore-accuser-says-that-he-groped-her-in-1991) > [@](#): > > An Alabama woman has accused Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore of groping her in 1991, when he was a married man, [AL.com](http://AL.com) reported on Wednesday. > > Tina Johnson, who would have been 28 at the time, told the news outlet that Moore grabbed her rear-end as she exited his office after she signed custody paperwork. Custody paperwork, huh? > [@](#): > > She also had two young daughters and said Moore at one point asked her if they were pretty like her, according to [AL.com](http://AL.com). > > The news outlet confirmed that Moore signed off on the custody documents at the time, which transferred custody of Johnson’s 12-year-old son over to her mother. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/739 "2017-11-16T00:17:58Z")
[http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360490-roy-moore-attorney-canadian-msnbc-hosts-background-could-help-him-understand](http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360490-roy-moore-attorney-canadian-msnbc-hosts-background-could-help-him-understand) Christ, Moore’s lawyer suggested that Ali Velshi’s “background” would help him understand to Roy Moore’s penchant for sexual assault. > [@](#): > > “Culturally speaking there’s differences. I looked up Ali’s background, and wow, that’s awesome that you have got such a diverse background, it’s really cool to read through that," attorney Trenton Garmon said when asked why Moore would need permission from girls’ mothers to date them. > > “What does Ali Velshi’s background have to do with dating children, 14-year-old girls?” co-host Stephanie Ruhle interjected. > > Velshi was born in Kenya, raised in Canada and graduated from Queen’s University in Ontario. > > “In other countries, there’s arrangement through parents for what we would refer to as consensual marriage,” Garmon said. > > “Ali’s from Canada,” Ruhle said. > > “Ali’s also spent time in other countries,” Garmon said. “So it’s not a bad thing.” :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Would someone just tell Roy Moore that he doesn’t have to defend himself? Everyone knows he’s a bigoted creep and apparently the folks of Alabama will still vote for him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/740 "2017-11-16T00:29:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Power to the people includes the power to be wrong. If no way is found to shame Judge Teenyboink away from the election, then let it go forward. And if the people of Alabama vote him into office, he should be seated. > > Makes me wish there were a good herbal remedy for nausea. Oh, wait!.. What are we waiting for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=38)