# Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504 "2017-08-13T00:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/821 "2017-11-29T15:15:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > A very healthy number of Democrats disbelieve Bill Clinton’s accusers. I think though that in both cases, they just say that to justify their voting decisions. Let’s see: Paula Jones claimed to be able to identify Clinton’s pecker by a distinguishing characteristic that it didn’t have. Kathleen Willey accused Clinton of having her husband and cat (!) murdered. Juanita Broaddrick testified under oath that Clinton didn’t assault her. IOW, there are healthy reasons for skepticism in all cases. In Roy Moore’s case, really the only things that there’s any reason to be skeptical about are whether he sexually assaulted anyone, or whether he got illegally friendly with someone under 16. Like with Clinton, I’m willing to reserve judgment on this. However, **the question of whether Moore, while in his 30s, made a habit of hitting on barely legal girls who were still in high school is a slam-dunk.** Comparing anyone who doubts that with those who doubt Clinton’s accusers is bullshit bothsidesism. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/822 "2017-11-29T15:18:22Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Well, well, well… > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/special/362041-alabama-gop-senator-i-voted-for-a-write-in-instead-of-moore](http://thehill.com/homenews/special/362041-alabama-gop-senator-i-voted-for-a-write-in-instead-of-moore) > > Hard to say if Shelby has that much clout (Sessions always seemed to get his name in the papers more often, even before he backed Trump), but it’s still got to be a body-blow to “da Judge”, in that it gives ‘respectable’ Republicans a clear out in voting for Moore, since their very own Senator couldn’t do it. > > See what kind of blow-back comes from the Moore camp on this. I doubt it matters that much. Conservatism is evolving into an all-out culture war, and that’s not the kind of person that Richard Shelby is. But that’s the kind of person Roy Moore is. And the voters in Alabama identify with a culture warrior. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/823 "2017-11-29T15:24:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Latest polls show Moore[back in the lead](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/new_senate_polls_have_roy_moor_1.html). If you type in the words “impeach trump” in Google Trends, you’ll see that Alabama is ranked 45th out of 50 states in terms of search interest over the past month (49th out of 50 over the past year), meaning that it’s among the states where the search term gets the least amount of interest. I know that this is hardly scientific, but I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that there might be at least some association here. In other words, it’s among the Trumpiest of states in the union. And I’m going to suggest as well that there’s at least some correlation between the politics of Trump and Moore, despite the lack of an endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/824 "2017-11-29T15:30:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Let’s see: Paula Jones claimed to be able to identify Clinton’s pecker by a distinguishing characteristic that it didn’t have. Kathleen Willey accused Clinton of having her husband and cat (!) murdered. Juanita Broaddrick testified under oath that Clinton didn’t assault her. IOW, there are healthy reasons for skepticism in all cases. > > In Roy Moore’s case, really the only things that there’s any reason to be skeptical about are whether he sexually assaulted anyone, or whether he got illegally friendly with someone under 16. Like with Clinton, I’m willing to reserve judgment on this. However, **the question of whether Moore, while in his 30s, made a habit of hitting on barely legal girls who were still in high school is a slam-dunk.** Comparing anyone who doubts that with those who doubt Clinton’s accusers is bullshit bothsidesism. Moreover, we haven’t had any new allegations against Clinton. Democrats who are talking about their regret for supporting Clinton are just falling victim to the right wing propaganda machine. Clinton was dumb to lie about the affair with Lewinski but I can absolutely see why he did it. He had good political instincts and he knew what kind of hypocritical, holier-than-thou, do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do conservatives he was fighting against. He was fighting publicly pious zealots who were determined to ruin Clinton because of his position on abortion rights and because he was a white southerner who wasn’t hostile to blacks and other minorities, and he knew as well as anyone that the very things he was doing behind closed doors were the same things his accusers were doing. He wasn’t going to give them the satisfaction of letting them use him as a victory in their jihad on American progressives. Democrats and progressives today would be wise to take the same approach and tell the republicans to stuff it. But beyond that, probably their best approach is to let the media deal with the likes of Roy Moore and just stay the heck out of it. Democrats gain nothing by trying to get involved in a morality play. It’s just a giant distraction from other issues and they’ll end up in a circular firing squad if they’re not careful. They need to focus on defeating republicans on the tax bill, health care, and ultimately, in next year’s elections. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/825 "2017-11-29T16:38:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Let’s see: Paula Jones claimed to be able to identify Clinton’s pecker by a distinguishing characteristic that it didn’t have. Kathleen Willey accused Clinton of having her husband and cat (!) murdered. Juanita Broaddrick testified under oath that Clinton didn’t assault her. IOW, there are healthy reasons for skepticism in all cases. > > In Roy Moore’s case, really the only things that there’s any reason to be skeptical about are whether he sexually assaulted anyone, or whether he got illegally friendly with someone under 16. Like with Clinton, I’m willing to reserve judgment on this. However, **the question of whether Moore, while in his 30s, made a habit of hitting on barely legal girls who were still in high school is a slam-dunk.** Comparing anyone who doubts that with those who doubt Clinton’s accusers is bullshit bothsidesism. Yep, but it doesnt matter. The GOP is pushing “whataboutism” really really hard so that the Pervert Moore gets his seat. And even here on the SDMB, there are more threads and posts about Franken and _even for fucks sake Bill’s_ “issues” than Moores criminal and pedohile activities. Even the SDMB is a sucker for the way Rove and the Kremlin manipulate the news. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/826 "2017-11-29T16:44:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, but it doesnt matter. The GOP is pushing “whataboutism” really really hard so that the Pervert Moore gets his seat. And even here on the SDMB, there are more threads and posts about Franken and _even for fucks sake Bill’s_ “issues” than Moores criminal and pedohile activities. > Even the SDMB is a sucker for the way Rove and the Kremlin manipulate the news. That’s how it works. Nate Silver opined that Moore might have bounced back because, among other things, the Democrats look like hypocrites now that some of their skeletons have come out, which I think is part of the story. But it’s really just about putting that “Both sides do it” thought in the heads of voters. The aim is to reassure voters that there’s not necessarily anything shameful about voting for Moore. Simultaneously, the message to center or left voters is that “Your guy’s probably flawed, too.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/827 "2017-11-29T17:01:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, but it doesnt matter. The GOP is pushing “whataboutism” really really hard so that the Pervert Moore gets his seat. And even here on the SDMB, there are more threads and posts about Franken and _even for fucks sake Bill’s_ “issues” than Moores criminal and pedohile activities. The Thread in GD about Clinton was certainly not started by a resident right-winger. But I’m still not sure your assertion is true or even meaningful. The Franken issue has considerable nuance to it, so there’s a lot to discuss. What is there to “discuss” about Moore? It’s pretty much an open and shut case, and I’m not aware of anyone\* on this MB who thinks he’s a victim. \*I don’t know, there might the odd poster or two, but there is no groundswell of support for him. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/828 "2017-11-29T17:06:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Thread in GD about Clinton was certainly not started by a resident right-winger. Tru dat! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/829 "2017-11-29T17:10:12Z")
Also, we’ve managed to corral almost all the discussion about Moore into this one big thread. (I take credit for having fortuitously bumped this thread literally minutes before the WaPo released its story about Moore and the teenage girls. :)) Just because there’s been more threads about Franken doesn’t really mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/830 "2017-11-29T17:12:29Z")
I am surprised there isn’t a Pit thread dedicated to Moore, but with all the “omnibus” threads we have these days, maybe that wasn’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/831 "2017-11-29T17:30:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Thread in GD about Clinton was certainly not started by a resident right-winger. > > But I’m still not sure your assertion is true or even meaningful. The Franken issue has considerable nuance to it, so there’s a lot to discuss. What is there to “discuss” about Moore? It’s pretty much an open and shut case, and I’m not aware of anyone\* on this MB who thinks he’s a victim. > > \*I don’t know, there might the odd poster or two, but there is no groundswell of support for him. So? One can be an unwitting tool. Because by saying Franken **FRANKEN** FRANKEN we drown out the truth about Moore, and play into the GOPs hands. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/832 "2017-11-29T20:30:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So? One can be an unwitting tool. Is it your contention that **RTF** is an “unwitting tool”? > [@](#): > > Because by saying Franken **FRANKEN** FRANKEN we drown out the truth about Moore, and play into the GOPs hands. On this MB? It is to laugh. Plenty of us here can walk and chew gum at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/833 "2017-11-29T20:48:18Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/834 "2017-11-29T20:57:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > \*I don’t know, there might the odd poster or two, but there is no groundswell of support for him. On this board, maybe not. Among the voting population? Apparently an awful lot. Including the so-called President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/835 "2017-12-03T16:39:19Z")
[Last week recap](https://apnews.com/110cc805438d48c79356c9ae43775b74/Roiled-by-claims,-Alabama-Senate-race-goes-off-the-rails):Moore laid low but got trolled at an event anyway. Jones went out often and loudly. Plus, there was some weirdness. > [@](#): > > Moore has made limited public appearances, leading to Democrat Doug Jones, who held a flurry of events over the weekend, to mock Moore for hiding. > > “We’re on the campaign trail meeting all of you and meeting folks here as no one knows where Roy Moore is,” Jones said Friday to a crowd of reporters interviewing him. > [@](#): > > Appearing at Magnolia Springs Baptist Church in Theodore, located near Mobile in southwest Alabama, the former judge known for his intense opposition to same-sex marriage blamed his political enemies for the allegations. > > “They’ve done everything. When I say they, who are they? They’re liberals. They don’t want conservative values. They’re the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender. They’re socialists who want to change our way of life, putting man above God and that government is our God. They’re the Washington establishment who simply wants to keep their job,” Moore said. > > Moore — whose speeches typically include long, memorized recitations of scripture and quotes from early America patriots — got into an uncharacteristic Twitter spat with Kimmel after “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” regular Tony Barbieri crashed the event in Theodore. > > After a heckler interrupted Moore and was hustled out by security, Barbieri jumped up in front of the pulpit where Moore stood. > > “That’s a man’s man,” Barbieri shouted. “Does that look like the face of a child molester?” [Video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_U4mta_Db8). > [@](#): > > That led to the social media knock-down between Moore and the comedian. Moore’s campaign wrote: “@jimmykimmel If you want to mock our Christian values, come down here to Alabama and do it man to man.” > > “Sounds great Roy - let me know when you get some Christian values and I’ll be there!” Kimmel replied. > [@](#): > > A crew from Fox News — the TV channel of choice for many Republicans — were shoved by two event organizers when they tried to film Moore entering a building before a rally in rural Henagar, in northeastern Alabama. > [@](#): > > In yet another odd scene, about 20 pastors and activists in Birmingham took turns praising Moore for his decades of support for conservative causes. Afterward, speakers yelled down journalists and one grabbed a videographer’s camera as reporters attempted to ask questions. Moore spoke briefly during the event but refused to take questions. > > Longtime Moore aide Dean Young chided reporters for even trying to question the candidate during an appearance on the steps of Alabama’s Capitol. > > “This Jerry Springer stuff is over,” she said. > > Not yet it isn’t. Election day is Dec. 12. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/836 "2017-12-03T16:57:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Cite? I’ll get back to you on that as soon as I finished chewing this piece of gum. > [@TimeWinder](#): > > On this board, maybe not. Among the voting population? Apparently an awful lot. Including the so-called President of the United States. Of course. I never implied otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/837 "2017-12-03T21:12:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Last week recap](https://apnews.com/110cc805438d48c79356c9ae43775b74/Roiled-by-claims,-Alabama-Senate-race-goes-off-the-rails):Moore laid low but got trolled at an event anyway. Jones went out often and loudly. Plus, there was some weirdness.[Video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_U4mta_Db8).😃 > … > > > [@](#): > > > > A crew from Fox News — the TV channel of choice for many Republicans — were shoved by two event organizers when they tried to film Moore entering a building before a rally in rural Henagar, in northeastern Alabama. > > … Somewhat off-topic from Moore, but: of course the quoted bit is only one isolated incident. But it seems likely that the relentlessness of the ‘don’t trust the media’ message pounded in by the right, is quite likely to affect not only “mainstream” outlets, but inevitably Fox and other right-wing media, too. The Murdochs may ultimately rue the day they embraced that particular theme. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/838 "2017-12-03T21:39:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is it your contention that **RTF** is an “unwitting tool”? Well, if not then the timing is suspicious- and it does work out that way. The GOP is doing all they can to spread whataboutism until the Alabama election. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/839 "2017-12-04T00:11:37Z")
_ **Yes!!** _ Now I am a _witting_ tool, undermining the coveted Dem-leaning Doper vote in Alabama, making them so distraught about Clinton and Franken and Conyers and all that Alabama Dopers will think Doug Jones is really a blend of all three, which they won’t be able to morally distinguish from Roy Moore, and all four of them will _stay home_ on December 12, throwing the election to Moore! Yes, my bothsidesism and whataboutism will _ **do this!!** _ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/840 "2017-12-04T00:22:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > _ **Yes!!** _ Now I am a _witting_ tool, undermining the coveted Dem-leaning Doper vote in Alabama, making them so distraught about Clinton and Franken and Conyers and all that Alabama Dopers will think Doug Jones is really a blend of all three, which they won’t be able to morally distinguish from Roy Moore, and all four of them will _stay home_ on December 12, throwing the election to Moore! > > Yes, my bothsidesism and whataboutism will _ **do this!!** _ 😃 Look, Clinton has been out of office for almost 200 goddamn months, So \*why the fuck \*did you pick this month, the month when the critical Alabama election is coming- the month where it just so happens the GOP is spreading whataboutsisms like crazy mad? I mean, why not next month? Or 10 years ago? or sometime where it might have been … oh what’s that word…_relevant_? Franken is at least current news. But Bill Clinton? :dubious::rolleyes: So, do you want to help the GOP elect Moore? Straight answer. Because- you _did_ help Moore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=43)