# Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504 "2017-08-13T00:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1001 "2017-12-11T23:40:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly how I understood it. > > All his interactions with teens were 30 - 40 years ago. If there are more recent allegations, they should be put on the table. I have no idea what is in his browser history-- I’m just saying he could have handled the accusations a lot better and maybe gotten a pass from a lot of folks since he has not continued that pattern of behavior. People can change. Yes, and if we were talking criminal charges, I would say they dont pass the “beyond all reasonable doubt test” being so old. But the pattern, and the dozens of accussers and winesses all point to a man who should not be elected. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1002 "2017-12-11T23:44:35Z")
I was being flippant about the browser history part. That said, my experience with pedophiles is that those leopards almost never change their spots. Not saying a case could be made on that basis. Just an empirical observation. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1003 "2017-12-11T23:52:10Z")
If someone gets put on a sex offender registry, can they get their name taken off if they apologize? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1004 "2017-12-11T23:57:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I was being flippant about the browser history part. That said, my experience with pedophiles is that those leopards almost never change their spots. Not saying a case could be made on that basis. Just an empirical observation. He’s not a pedophile. I, fortunately, have no experience with pedophiles, though. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > If someone gets put on a sex offender registry, can they get their name taken off if they apologize? He’s not on a sex offender registry. I’ll admit that the incident with the 14-year-old is especially problematic, and he might have some legal issues if he admits to having molested her. I’m not terribly wedded to the idea-- it’s just my opinion, so if you want to disagree I’m not going to object. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1005 "2017-12-12T00:01:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s not a pedophile. I, fortunately, have no experience with pedophiles, though. > > I’ll admit that the incident with the 14-year-old is especially problematic, and he might have some legal issues if he admits to having molested her. I’m not terribly wedded to the idea-- it’s just my opinion, so if you want to disagree I’m not going to object. Mmm, 14 is\* awful close\* to being a Pedo. 16? Ok, not a pedo but a statutory rape creep/perv. See, he was 30 and a officer of the law. He knew better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1006 "2017-12-12T00:05:20Z")
He was fine with molesting a 14 year old girl. Seems silly to quibble about whether that makes him a pedophile or not. Whether his preference is for 14 year olds, 13 year olds, 16 year olds, etc., that he’s willing to grope and molest a 14 year old girl seems like enough to call this guy a credibly alleged sexual predator of children. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1007 "2017-12-12T00:42:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s not a pedophile. I, fortunately, have no experience with pedophiles, though. > He’s not on a sex offender registry. > > I’ll admit that the incident with the 14-year-old is especially problematic, and he might have some legal issues if he admits to having molested her. I’m not terribly wedded to the idea-- it’s just my opinion, so if you want to disagree I’m not going to object. Sorry, but according to my understanding (IANAL), had he been tried and convicted, he would legally be a pedophile. Anyone who is not of age to consent is considered a minor, and an adult making sexual moves on a minor is referred to as a pedophile. I’m aware of even young men aged 18 and 19 in the State of California who were required to register as sex offenders due to convictions/pleas in statutory rape or molest cases. I don’t claim any specific knowledge of those statutes in the State of Alabama or how they might apply, but I suspect the standards are similar. I do know the age of 14 is too young to give consent in the State of Alabama. He’s not a registered sex offender because he was never tried for his crimes. Today in that state, there is no statute of limitations for sexual crimes against children. But back when Roy Moore was doing his stuff, there was – and it has run for all of these cases, I believe. If the law that is in effect in Alabama today was in effect then and the girls had come forward with their accusations, he’d have been charged and tried. Assuming he was convicted of such charges, he’d be a registered sex offender. A pedophile. Agree with **iiandyiiii** , whatever else can be said of Roy Moore, he’s a sexual predator who enjoyed spending his Friday and Saturday nights cruising the mall for underage girls. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1008 "2017-12-12T01:09:32Z")
I think there’s a terminology problem here. A pedophile is someone who “likes” children. It’s not a legal claim at all. The legal issue you are describing is child molester and possibly child rapist. It is possible to be a non-offending pedophile. As for distinguishing pedophilia (prepubescent) and hebephila (mid-pubescent), I’m in two minds about that. On one hand, they’re all still children. On the other, one seems like it would be healthier than the other, especially if it’s not exclusive. I guess where I fall is that it’s all still child molestation if they act on it, but there’s a need for different terms for discussing how to actually deal with it. Anyways, none of this should be construed as defense for Moore or other child molesters. Sure, I can argue that some are worse than Moore, but worse people existing is never an excuse. I am choosing to hold out hope that Alabama won’t elect a child molester, while at the same time steeling myself for how horrible it will be if they don’t. I used up my incredulity when Trump was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1009 "2017-12-12T01:27:41Z")
I suppose we all view life through our own lens. Having spent a career working in the legal field, I tend to view it through that lens. Not likely to change now, though I appreciate others’ view. All I can say is that pedophilia does have a specific legal meaning, and it includes definitions about who is a child and who is an adult. It doesn’t go any further than that. If you are an adult and you are touching a child, whether over or under their clothing, you are molesting them. If you are convicted of molesting them, you will be referred to as a pedophile and will suffer for a lifetime the consequences of having to register as a sex offender. I understand your lens and that of others in this thread is different. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1010 "2017-12-12T01:44:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I suppose we all view life through our own lens. Having spent a career working in the legal field, I tend to view it through that lens. Not likely to change now, though I appreciate others’ view. > > All I can say is that pedophilia does have a specific legal meaning, and it includes definitions about who is a child and who is an adult. It doesn’t go any further than that. If you are an adult and you are touching a child, whether over or under their clothing, you are molesting them. If you are convicted of molesting them, you will be referred to as a pedophile and will suffer for a lifetime the consequences of having to register as a sex offender. > > I understand your lens and that of others in this thread is different. I don’t know the laws in every State but at least most of them definitely do distinguish between different ages of the minor child. You will get a worse punishment for an eight year old and a fifteen year old. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1011 "2017-12-12T01:45:19Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I suppose we all view life through our own lens. Having spent a career working in the legal field, I tend to view it through that lens. Not likely to change now, though I appreciate others’ view. > > All I can say is that pedophilia does have a specific legal meaning, and it includes definitions about who is a child and who is an adult. It doesn’t go any further than that. If you are an adult and you are touching a child, whether over or under their clothing, you are molesting them. If you are convicted of molesting them, you will be referred to as a pedophile and will suffer for a lifetime the consequences of having to register as a sex offender. > > I understand your lens and that of others in this thread is different. Not that I’m very eager to defend Roy Moore, but does the term “pedophile” appear in state law in Alabama (or Oregon)? You said “pedophilia does have a specific legal meaning”. Where is that defined? The handful of laws I am familiar with on the subject refer to something like “sexual exploitation of a minor” and never use the word “pedophile” or “pedophilia”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1012 "2017-12-12T01:50:12Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I don’t know the laws in every State but at least most of them definitely do distinguish between different ages of the minor child. You will get a worse punishment for an eight year old and a fifteen year old. Yes, and here is the [Alabama law](https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/alabama-statutory-rape-laws.htm) (current, not from the 1970s): > [@](#): > > First degree rape includes sexual intercourse (penetration, however slight) with a minor younger than 12 years old, and of the opposite sex of the defendant, when the defendant is at least 16 years old. > > Second degree rape includes sexual intercourse with a minor who is 12, 13, 14, or 15, and of the opposite sex of the defendant, when the defendant is at least 16 years old and at least two years older than the victim. > > First degree sexual abuse includes sexual touching between a minor younger than 12 years old, and of the opposite sex of the defendant, when the defendant is at least 16 years old. > > Second degree sexual abuse includes sexual touching with a minor who is 12, 13, 14, or 15, and of the opposite sex of the defendant, when the defendant is at least 16 years old and at least two years older than the victim. It’s not accurate to say a child is a child is a child, in these cases-- the law definitely distinguishes acts between pre-pubescent and post-pubescent children. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1013 "2017-12-12T01:53:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Mmm, 14 is\* awful close\* to being a Pedo. > > 16? Ok, not a pedo but a statutory rape creep/perv. See, he was 30 and a officer of the law. He knew better. In Alabama, 16 is not statutory rape. It’s legal sex. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1014 "2017-12-12T01:54:11Z")
Are any results being reported yet? Polls closed for almost an hour now. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1015 "2017-12-12T01:59:04Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Are any results being reported yet? Polls closed for almost an hour now. Today’s Monday. 🙂 Election’s tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1016 "2017-12-12T01:59:54Z")
OMG. Now you know the curse of being retired. :embarrassed: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1017 "2017-12-12T02:00:06Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Are any results being reported yet? Polls closed for almost an hour now. I’m not super-clear on how time zones work, but I don’t think you’re a full day ahead of us. Hold yer horses! edit: in any case it looks like my time zone is behind Bayard’s. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1018 "2017-12-12T02:03:17Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Are any results being reported yet? Polls closed for almost an hour now. The election is tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1019 "2017-12-12T02:04:59Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > OMG. Now you know the curse of being retired. :embarrassed: The worst part was, for a few seconds I thought maybe it was Tuesday, and when I realized it wasn’t, I had to once again face the fact that it was _still Monday!_ :mad: Curse you for putting me through that! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/1020 "2017-12-12T02:21:14Z")
We can only pray a considerable portion of Moore’s voters are also confused about what is the actual election day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504.md?page=52)