Can the EPA _demand_ the government stop global warming for the polar bears' sake?

[brazil84]

@jshore

(1) It will accomplish slowing or even stopping the growth of emissions in countries that account for a large fraction of the total emissions.

But what will the effect be on total CO2? That’s what really matters as far as saving the polar bear goes. (Again, assuming that more CO2 = threat to polar bears.)

(2) More importantly, it will set a price on CO2 emissions so that the necessary incentives exist to develop the necessary technologies

Either that, or it will set up incentives to move factories and power plants to the third world.

[Note that China is not saying, “We will never take any steps to restrain or cut our emissions.” Rather, they are saying, “You guys who are responsible for most of the problem up to this point have to go first.”]

Why does it matter what China says? What matters is what China does. Or doesn’t do.

[brazil84]

@Public Animal No. 9

True, there’s nothing that can be done about what has already been emitted, but in my view, that’s sort of like the line in Monty Python and the Holy Grail - “Come now, let’s not quibble about who killed who.”

Again, for some purposes, it doesn’t really matter who killed whom. Sometimes fixing the blame doesn’t fix the problem.

I’m fascinated by your grouping of issues. I’m assuming (hoping) you are referring to “Jews” in the context of world domination conspiracies.

Sadly, there have been many moral panics over Jewish people. The other day, I was just reading about “On the Jews and Their Lies” written in the 16th century by none other than Martin Luther.

The second hand smoke and CO2 “panics” are definitely the outliers in your list, as both of them have scientific data to back up their claims.

To me, it would appear that the threat of secondhand smoke has been wildly exaggerated. Here’s a Cecil collumn on the subject:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000602.html

He too is somewhat skeptical.

As far as CO2 goes, we are right in the thick of the panic right now, but I’m pretty confident that in 10 years or so, there will be only a few die-hards who think it’s a big problem.

[wevets]

@brazil84

Why does it matter what China says? What matters is what China does. Or doesn’t do.

Do you believe that it will be easier or harder for China to resist a treaty limiting emissions if/when the United States ends its opposition to such a treaty?
Treaties are not the answer to everything, but a political agreement would be an excellent starting point in determining the behavior of nations - see the Montreal Protocol for a treaty that made considerable progress towards solving a pollution problem.

[brazil84]

@wevets

Do you believe that it will be easier or harder for China to resist a treaty limiting emissions if/when the United States ends its opposition to such a treaty?

I’m not sure I understand your question, since the treaty opposed by the U.S. doesn’t limit China’s emissions in any way and was in facted signed by China, as far as I know.

If you are talking about a hypothetical treaty that limits emissions for all nations, I would guess that it would be slightly harder for China to resist the treaty, but not enough to make much of a difference. China is not a democracy and its government is perfectly happy to crush subjects who step out of line. Clearly China would like to become one of the premier nations on Earth, if not THE premier nation. If emitting a lot of CO2 is the price, I’m pretty confident that China is willing to pay that price.

(By the way, I’m obviously talking about the “Peoples’ Republic of China,” also known as “Mainland China”).

[brazil84]

Note:

Putting aside the issue of polar bears, it looks like global warming has already extincted the Loch Ness Monster:

Veteran Loch Ness Monster Hunter Gives Up

Despite having hundreds of sonar contacts over the years, the trail has since gone cold and Rines believes that Nessie may be dead, a victim of global warming

Prolly the Yeti is next.

[XT]

Yeah…it’s a shame about Nessie. My guess is the Yeti is doomed and Big Foot is probably as well. According to some of the shows I’ve seen on Discovery/TLC/History/Etc you can lay almost everything at the feet of Global Warming.

(I was thinking the other day that they hype about Global Warming has nearly jumped the shark…except that the reality is bad enough. That show Six Degrees Could Change the World was pretty scary)

-XT