# Can the government declare your work is classified? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176 "2016-09-29T01:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/1 "2016-09-29T01:51:06Z")
On Big bang theory the big theme for the season seems to be that the guys have developed a better method for stabilizing missiles in flight or some such. One of the characters claims that the government could come in and declare their patent and work to be classified and then they would lose their ability to make money off of it. I can’t imagine that the government could do that. The same way that the government can’t demand that the New York times not publish an article containing info revealed by Snowden. If you signed a NDA that’s one thing but without an NDA there’s nothing they can do. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/2 "2016-09-29T02:23:26Z")
Didn’t they crack down on nuclear physics research, during the Manhattan Project? If something really was dangerous, I think there are “emergency powers” that can come in to play. Suppose I developed a mathematical way to break all currently known security systems. That’d be a pretty big threat to national security. I think I want the government “men in black” to come round and take a damn close look at it. (Obviously, this sort of thing can be taken way too far. The dangerous extension of it comes when “criticizing our beloved leader” is taken as imperiling national security, and then we all go to the Gulag.) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/3 "2016-09-29T03:20:41Z")
I believe they could but that wouldn’t necessarily cost you the ability to make money. After all, Defense Department over-payments for projects and items are legendary. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/4 "2016-09-29T10:26:47Z")
With the possible exception of nuclear weapons related developments, which is historically a special case, the Fifth Amendment prohibits the government from taking private property without just compensation. The researchers would have to get paid even in some kind of outlandish scenario where their work was hustled off to Area 51. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/5 "2016-09-29T10:45:04Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I can’t imagine that the government could do that. The same way that the government can’t demand that the New York times not publish an article containing info revealed by Snowden. If you signed a NDA that’s one thing but without an NDA there’s nothing they can do. The Invention Secrecy Act may be relevant > **[Invention Secrecy Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act)** > > The Invention Secrecy Act of 1951 (Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 82–256, 66 Stat. 3, enacted February 1, 1952, codified at 35 U.S.C. ch. 17) is a body of United States federal law designed to prevent disclosure of new inventions and technologies that, in the opinion of selected federal agencies, present an alleged threat to the economic stability or national security of the United States. > The Invention Secret Act allows the United States government to classify ideas and patents un... ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/6 "2016-09-29T14:01:57Z")
From the Wikipedia article on [John Aristotle Phillips](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aristotle_Phillips) (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > Phillips was an underachieving student who played the [tiger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_tiger) [mascot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mascot) at Princeton games. Hoping to stay at the school, he proposed a [term paper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_paper) for a seminar on [nuclear proliferation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation) outlining the design for an atomic bomb similar to the [Nagasaki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki,_Nagasaki) weapon. Whether the weapon as designed would have actually exploded was questioned. Dr. Frank Chilton, a California nuclear scientist who at that time specialized in nuclear explosion engineering, said Phillips’s design was “pretty much guaranteed to work.”[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aristotle_Phillips#cite_note-6) However, Phillips’ faculty advisor [Freeman Dyson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson), a renowned [physicist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicist), and [professor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor) [Harold Feiveson](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Harold_Feiveson&action=edit&redlink=1), who held the seminar, said Phillips’ design was not functional.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aristotle_Phillips#cite_note-vf-7) **Nevertheless, the [Federal Bureau of Investigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation) confiscated Phillips’s term paper and a [mockup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mockup) he had constructed in his [dormitory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormitory) room.** In 1979, Phillips published his story together with a co-author, David Michaelis, as _Mushroom: The True Story of the A-Bomb Kid_ ([ISBN 0-671-82731-6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0671827316) / [ISBN 0-688-03351-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0688033512)). ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/7 "2016-09-29T15:06:30Z")
There are broad powers under ‘National Security’ that might come into play. Whether it would hold up in court is another issue, of course, but the federal government could certainly claim something endangered national security and take a stab at it. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/8 "2016-09-29T15:11:28Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > The Invention Secrecy Act may be relevant > > [Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act) Wow, I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/9 "2016-09-29T16:03:04Z")
They can do anything they want! ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/10 "2016-09-29T16:09:28Z")
This is definitely a thing. It is also the reason that any invention conceived in the US (whether or not the inventors are citizens or residents) cannot be filed as a patent in any other country without either first filing it in the U.S. or getting a foreign filing license from the U.S. Basically, they want to take a look at it first in case they want to put it under secrecy order. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/11 "2016-09-29T16:20:16Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > The Invention Secrecy Act may be relevant > > [Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act) Let’s be clear here: this law has to do with keeping a patent secret for periods of one year, subject to renewal, and it does not automatically mean that the government seizes the patent for its own use. The law also provides for compensation to be paid to the person whose patent is kept under seal, with judicial review for fairness, etc. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/12 "2016-09-29T16:57:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Let’s be clear here: this law has to do with keeping a patent secret for periods of one year, subject to renewal, and it does not automatically mean that the government seizes the patent for its own use. The law also provides for compensation to be paid to the person whose patent is kept under seal, with judicial review for fairness, etc. Also, that specific act can’t prevent public disclosure of a non-patented discovery. So, if you just want to improve mankind/disrupt the current national security order, the US Government would have to fall back on something akin to “Born Secret”\*. But if you patent something revolutionary and disruptive (in a way that the National Security organs find interesting), you run the slight risk running afoul of this law. \*“[Born Secret](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_secret)” has historically only been applicable to nuclear technology, and is implemented accordingly in the [Atomic Energy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Energy_Act_of_1946). In this case, all such information regardless of source is regarded as [Restricted Data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_Data). As defined, that’s just atomic/nuclear information, but I suspect it would only take a new law and corresponding regulation to expand Restricted Data to other technologies. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/13 "2016-09-30T04:06:14Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Also, that specific act can’t prevent public disclosure of a non-patented discovery. So, if you just want to improve mankind/disrupt the current national security order, the US Government would have to fall back on something akin to “Born Secret”\*. > > But if you patent something revolutionary and disruptive (in a way that the National Security organs find interesting), you run the slight risk running afoul of this law. > > \*“[Born Secret](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_secret)” has historically only been applicable to nuclear technology, and is implemented accordingly in the [Atomic Energy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Energy_Act_of_1946). In this case, all such information regardless of source is regarded as [Restricted Data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_Data). As defined, that’s just atomic/nuclear information, but I suspect it would only take a new law and corresponding regulation to expand Restricted Data to other technologies. I think it is interesting that the government seems unwilling to defend the law since it would likely be considered unconstitutional. Lets them continue to harass people until that harassment leads to a court case. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/14 "2016-09-30T05:18:58Z")
Not my work. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/15 "2016-09-30T06:43:17Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > From the Wikipedia article on [John Aristotle Phillips](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aristotle_Phillips) (emphasis added): Yeah, a hijack, but my late grandfather was a nuclear scientist and he told me that SOP in case of alleged designs being unveiled to the public was to say nothing if the design would or would not work. Even if it was a picture of Willie E Coyote with a cannonball bomb labelled “nuclear weapon blueprints”, they were not to say anything. Makes sense actually, since if you say it would work, you tell poeple how to make a bomb, if you say it does not, then you have pointed out one way not to do things and saved some people the time and effort needed to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/16 "2016-09-30T10:31:10Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > On Big bang theory the big theme for the season seems to be that the guys have developed a better method for stabilizing missiles in flight or some such. One of the characters claims that the government could come in and declare their patent and work to be classified and then they would lose their ability to make money off of it. I learned in another thread that the US government can use its power of Eminent Domain in this sort of case and forcibly purchase the patent. For a fair price, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/17 "2016-09-30T11:15:36Z")
I work as a contractor for the USAF. A couple years ago we were doing some testing on an electronic system and discovered something… unusual. The unexpected result was subsequently deemed Classified. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/18 "2016-09-30T13:54:55Z")
Just because an idea or product or whatever is deemed classified, doesn’t mean the inventor can’t make money off of it. Why would you think that? The government funds classified programs all the time. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/19 "2016-09-30T15:28:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Just because an idea or product or whatever is deemed classified, doesn’t mean the inventor can’t make money off of it. Why would you think that? > > The government funds classified programs all the time. And that’s the key. If you have a patent classified “out of your hands”, the government becomes your sole licensee. They’ll compensate you, but probably not as well as someone else might. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176/20 "2016-09-30T16:15:29Z")
The “compensation” part is basically illusory. From [this](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-08/congratulations-your-genius-patent-is-now-a-military-secret) article: "The inventors from Michigan agreed in December to a $63,000 settlement. In the 65-year history of the Invention Secrecy Act, this stands out as a rare instance in which the government paid private inventors for a secret patent application. In doing so, the government put an end to a lawsuit that could have developed into a fundamental threat to the law itself. " I.e., they didn’t get compensated for the patent directly, they were compensated to avoid a Constitutional challenge. Usually the Government just declares the patent valueless and pays zip. Regardless. Once the Government declares a matter classified, trying to get anything fixed via the judicial system is incredibly hard. Lots of hurdles: e.g., you and your lawyers have to get security clearance just to be in the room with the judge. You don’t by default have the security clearance needed to talk about your own invention. It’s an abusive system that needs to be radically modified. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-government-declare-your-work-is-classified/767176.md?page=2)