My understanding is that the parts of Area 51 that are posted with “deadly force authorized” signage are already miles onto the property and most military personnel are forbidden entry as well. You don’t see them from the highway. By the time you are close enough to see those signs you have already been trespassing for several thousand feet or more and will soon be surrounded by private security (the locals call “cammos” for their camouflage uniforms), who will quickly be backed up by state police. The car will be physically blocked from entry miles before the place where they keep all the aliens and Jimmy Hoffa. If you did somehow manage to avoid their keen eyes, the entire area is also covered with sound and motion sensors that are monitored 24x7. If you managed to avoid all that too, and actually just suddenly appeared inside “the real area 51” you would find out very quickly if the signs mean business. My guess is that they do. Google for “area 51 arrest” and check out some of the videos - they clearly mean business and those are just the guys guarding the parameter of the parameter of the parameter of the really secure area.
Yeah this. My father (a vet and retired cop) always snarked during stupid cop movies in which the cop’s aim is so awesome that he can “just wound the guy” or “shoot the gun out of his hand” were neglecting a basic tenet: “dead dude won’t sue.” Granted, his family might… but hell, they’re usually not present at the time of the shooting.
In general, if the shooter (soldier or cop) fears for his life, or for the lives of others, it’s trigger time. Someone attempting to breach a highly restricted area with national security implications would most likely fall into the latter category.
Compare that to Area 51
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
“Halt”
Really? You would be on guard WITHOUT a round already in the chamber? I am really surprised by that.
That one had me confused as well. It’s been 25 years, but I seem to remember that when we were on duty, a round was already in the chamber.
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The post titled “Is Hunger Sensation Caused By Empty Stomach?” was clearly intended to start a new thread, so I moved it and the reply to it out of the Area 51 discussion and into a comfy little thread of their own.
[/moderating]
Are we talking pistol or rifle here?
Rifle. In 1985, only officers and Staff NCOs carried pistols.
Yeah, but it’s a pain in the butt to get to Netherstorm…
Well, you wouldn’t want somebody to get hurt
From my limited military experience (only ever pulled guard duty in training situations: ie: Either it was one of the fake “Smurf Killer” rifles, or it was a rifle with no magazine), we were told that typical ROE was for the weapon to be loaded but unchambered. If you needed to use the weapon, first step was to charge it (which takes about a second or less depending on how clumsy you are feeling). It also makes a nice loud clack-clack sound that Hollywood has taught people to meant “OK, NOW he is serious!”
The ROE does change from one place to another, of course. You might be told to charge the weapon as soon as you load it, depending on where you are.
As for whether the guards can shoot to kill? There was a couple of teenagers last year who stole a car and ran the gate at Luke AFB in Arizona. I say that in the past tense because the Air Force Security Forces airmen there did in fact shoot to kill (though in that case, this was after they had set up a roadblock on the base and the driver tried to run it; he had already run the gate at this point) IIRC, the car ended up crashing and one of the occupants died, with the other charged with manslaughter because his actions caused the whole mess.
In regards to Area 51, I’ve only ever heard of them calling the local cops to pick up the intruders. It’s a pretty big place, and I’m sure any of the places you would actually get actively shot for trying to get into are fenced off and locked up anyways, or so far into the place that you’d just get picked up before you got far enough.
One does not simply walk into Netherstorm…
Two questions:
-most AF bases now have security details provided by Wackenhut or Pinkertons-nobody uses AF personnell anymore-is it cheaper to use private security firms?
-that part of Area 51 where they keep the frozen alien corpses-would you get shot if you entered it?
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Not gonna discuss specifics of base defenses, for very self-evident reasons, but of the last four bases I’ve been stationed at, one had a civilian police department backed by a security contractor, and the other three had a combination of military personnel and civilian police. I think it mostly comes down to deployments. When the military cops are overseas defending our bases in foreign countries, you need someone to guard the bases at home.
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You can avoid the whole getting shot thing if you buy an admission ticket for the guided tour. :rolleyes:
If you “break red” on an Air Force Base, e.g. enter a restricted area without going through the Entry Control Point, they can shoot you. This is true on any flight line on any base anywhere the Air Force has aircraft. That they don’t shoot is simply a matter of judgment. Authorization is not the same as a requirement.
As far as the actual act of firing your weapon goes, there is no other way than to kill. Just like in the civilian world, there is a reasonableness standard. Grandma getting lost is not the same as a guy running straight for a plane with a heavy jacket on in mid-summer. Shoot grandma and you’re going to jail. This is all covered during our annual Use of Force training.
With regard to Area 51, of course they can shoot, and as I said you always shoot to kill. Their security standards might be stricter than an average base, but it doesn’t change the essential fact that shooting is authorized on any base if necessary.
Indeed, as Airman Doors has indicated, the only warning shots the Air Force cops are inclined to give are “Two to the Chest, One to the head”, as they say.
There is the whole graduated levels of response leading UP to opening fire, obviously, they aren’t going to go to that choice first except under some specific circumstances (to protect life, to protect certain critical resources, etc.) They’re not gonna pull a gun because you get lost at three in the morning and roll up to the gate to ask for directions to the nearest Waffle Hut.
At area 51 they will. They don’t so much “pull” the gun since they already have it in their hands as they wait for hapless motorists to wander in. And people drive up all the time for various reasons. Despite the sobering implications that trying to infiltrate a top secret military base would normally carry (making it a very rare event at most bases) because of Area 51’s lore and appeal to the ufo crowd these poor guys are run ragged - constantly chasing away curiosity seekers, UFO sleuths, deranged conspiracy theorists, etc. They don’t take kindly to the situation and try to make an example out of anyone they possibly can. From the videos I see by searching online they always approach with guns pointed at the vehicle and passengers and really make a “federal case” out of it. Even when it is clearly some hapless tourist trying to get a closer picture or a drunk who has no idea what’s going on.
Related question: are U.S. military bases generally guarded by guys whose sole job is to guard the base, or do the troops serving there take turns? Will the guy at the gate be a cop or a mechanic who pulled guard duty? How about the guy in the tower?
The answer to your question is “Yes.” There are the guys whose job is “Force Protection”, basically being the cops, who have the specialized training in the guns and the bigger guns and the hand-to-hand stuff, and then there are the “Augmentees”, the mechanics and engineers and clerks and whoever else is in the Air Force who get tapped out to help out.
Depending on the base, there are also civilian cops and/or security contractors. You’ll recall that the Fort Hood shooter last year was taken down by one of the civilian cops (he shot her, and then she shot him more effectively)
To be fair: “People wandering up and taking pictures of the gate and/or the base” is one of the warning indicators that they tell you to look out for. If you want to get past the security, you have to see what the security looks like. Can’t speak for the approaching with guns pointed at the cars, though, that obviously has never happened to me.
My understanding from when I toured the Tower was that in the 13th century, parts of the Tower outer & inner wards were residential. (I doubt peasants lived there, but (a) I have no cite & (b) they may have visited on personal matters.)
According to the Yeoman Warders, the whole Ceremony of the Keys came about because the civilian residents objected to the Tower’s outer gate being locked at sunset. The objections got so strong that the Warders requested armed escorts. The Warders still collect their armed escorts before locking the gate.
As for the OP question phrased as “can”: I would hope that guards at a military base have the appropriate training to shoot to kill, should the ROE and situation call for it.
Personal item on the “-- and situation”: Twice I have taken a wrong turn around the Pentagon, the first time resulting in stopping at the gate guard. Both times I politely said I was lost and asked directions to where I was going; both times the guards were most helpful. (As the roadways in the Pentagon area have been confusing ever since the place was built, they probably get this sort of situation several times a day.) At no time did they pull weapons on me. I have no doubt that if someone drove FAST at an entry gate and dodged the barriers to get through, the big guns would come out.