# Can the liver benefit from a "rest"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583 "2014-09-26T01:32:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/41 "2014-09-26T17:02:41Z")
Are “toxins” specifically those substances that can cause harm to the liver? Or do they refer to substances that the liver helps the body get rid of that if allowed to accumulate (never metabolized/excreted) could cause harm to other organs? Please note however that the latter is a definition too broad to be useful as most substances, including basic proteins, including what we mobuilize within our bodies every day stored within itself, would be harmful if not properly metabolized and the end products excreted. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/42 "2014-09-26T17:38:28Z")
**DSeid** , I use liver ‘toxins’ in the former context, since I agree that the latter sense is meaningless. However I recognize that most sites on the net which refer to liver toxins use the 2nd definition, which potentially includes anything and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/43 "2014-09-26T19:02:57Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > But one can give the liver a break by not giving it too much work to do. So avoid alcohol and excessive doses of acetaminophen and other toxic substances as indicated. As I tell my patients “You can’t live without your liver. So knock that shit off.” “Is it worth living a life without liquor? Certainly, that depends on the liver.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/44 "2014-09-26T19:28:19Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > This is pretty silly. Obviously you don’t follow the scientific literature if you’re equating fasting to religion/spirits/exorcism. Could you list all the valid scientific literature that supports fasting as a positive health/nutrition practice? (Skip the handful of recent papers that have tentative findings of minor benefit in some fairly rare situations.) Until someone does, there’s no difference between saying “I’m going to fast to clear toxins from my body and give my liver a rest” and “I am possessed by demons, so a good exorcism or two should make me pure again.” > [@Smeghead](#): > > I think you’re going a bit too far in the other direction Amateur Barbarian. “Toxin”, while horribly misused and overused by the woo crowd, is a genuine term with a real meaning, and it’s an overstatement to say that there are little to no toxins in a normal diet. It’s just the overlap between real toxins that the liver actually works on and the list of “toxins” that the woo crowd think exist is very very small. I can live with that, especially the last sentence. The idea that food - even super-healthy vegan stuff - is laden with “toxins” that build up and have to be purged with fasting, herbs, colonics, whatever is 99.999 woo. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/45 "2014-09-26T20:31:44Z")
[http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/10/30/fasting-emerges-as-potential-way-to-stave-off-alzheimer-cancer](http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/10/30/fasting-emerges-as-potential-way-to-stave-off-alzheimer-cancer)Fasting might not do much for the liver, but there’s been recent articles that it may help with preventing alzheimers. We evolved “fasting” regularly, and it helped clear a fatty plaque in the brain. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/46 "2014-09-26T20:47:33Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > [http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/10/30/fasting-emerges-as-potential-way-to-stave-off-alzheimer-cancerFasting](http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/10/30/fasting-emerges-as-potential-way-to-stave-off-alzheimer-cancerFasting) might not do much for the liver, but there’s been recent articles that it may help with preventing alzheimers. We evolved “fasting” regularly, and it helped clear a fatty plaque in the > brain. There have been a number of such studies with very tentative results, and in most of them, the fasting triggers certain responses that can be duplicated in other ways (such as dosing with the amino acid or other catalyst the body produces under such stress.) I view them as the equivalent of cardio stress tests - if you push hard on a body system, it will reveal things you didn’t know before. That doesn’t mean heart patients should do hard cardio workouts as a “cure.” There’s also the usual weasel-wording, “Short fasts won’t hurt, could help but are likely unnecessary if you’re eating healthily.” Not a woo blog, though. There’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/47 "2014-09-26T20:55:31Z")
There certainly are a lot of things you can eat that stress your liver, and giving your liver a break from them is a good idea. For example, too high a daily dose of ibuprofen. No doubt there are natural foods that if you ate unusually high quantities it’d stress your liver. Giving it a break by eating a more normal balanced diet (or going off the meds) for a bit would certainly be a good idea, but it’d be a better idea to just in general avoid the excesses so your liver doesn’t need a break. (With obvious exceptions for cases like chemo.) I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that eating four Big Macs with supersized fries every day is hard on your liver. But of course, we’d want to see the studies before we stated that as a fact. I doubt that fasting is particularly good for your liver, but that’s just a guess. As always, we’d want to see the studies. Think Jerry McQuire, only replace “MONEY” with “DATA”. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/48 "2014-09-26T22:27:46Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Could you list all the valid scientific literature that supports fasting as a positive health/nutrition practice? (Skip the handful of recent papers that have tentative findings of minor benefit in some fairly rare situations.) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12033169&postcount=47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12033169&postcount=47) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=677496&highlight=fasting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=677496&highlight=fasting) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/49 "2014-09-26T23:00:27Z")
Fatty liver (hepatic steatosis) can cause cirrhosis. It may be caused by (or be a manifestation of) metabolic syndrome, which itself can be caused by chronicly over-eating. There are many other causes, too, including excessive alcohol consumption (purposely vague, as the quantity differs for individuals). I was a bit surprised to see fasting as a potential cause. > **[Steatohepatitis and Steatosis (Fatty Liver)](https://patient.info/doctor/steatohepatitis-and-steatosis-fatty-liver)** > > Steatosis (fatty liver) is an accumulation of fat in the liver. Steatohepatitis is when this progresses to become associated with inflammation. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/50 "2014-09-26T23:42:35Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/51 "2014-09-27T00:20:53Z")
That Dr. Drew Ordon quoted in the Daily Mail article is (in addition to being a plastic surgeon and TV talk show host, not any kind of expert on hepatic physiology) a ninny. Exhibit A - his stupid remark about how it’s bad to eat “antifreeze” - referring to propylene glycol, a widely used substance in the manufacture of food, drugs, vitamins and cosmetics for its solvent and stabilizing properties. If you chugged down a gallon of it you might well be in trouble. In the micro-amounts it appears in consumable products, it is not harmful. Your liver is a marvelous organ, capable of making and storing important substances, regulating critical processes and breaking down toxic substances produced by your own body or which you ingest. It does not need help from fasts or supplements. Obesity is a risk factor for fatty liver, sure - but that relates to excess of varying kinds, not merely that associated with overconsumption of fatty fast foods. The best thing you can do for your liver is to leave it the hell alone, apart from living a good lifestyle that includes a healthy diet. Limit alcohol, don’t take unnecessary drugs, avoid useless herbal remedies and supplements that can damage the liver, and it will be a happy organ.\* \*A [happy organ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNxpU_ITpMQ) is a wonderful thing. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/52 "2014-09-27T00:53:35Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Fatty liver . . . I was a bit surprised to see fasting as a potential cause. > > [Steatohepatitis and Steatosis (Fatty Liver)](http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/steatohepatitis-and-steatosis-fatty-liver#) Fasting (and starvation) can definitely cause fatty liver. That said, I doubt (just my opinion, mind you) that fatty liver due to fasting is likely to lead to clinical disease (but all bets are off if the ‘starvation’ is because of some intestinal bypass procedure). The mechanism for starvation leading to fatty liver is, in part, because when we fast, the stored fat in our fat tissue is (appropriately) broken down and released into the bloodstream where it can circulate throughout the body to be used as a fuel instead of the very limited and very precious glucose (with glucose being hard to come when you’re starving). However, when fat enters the circulation in large quantities, as it may do when stored fat inside fat tissue is being broken down during periods of starvation, it tends to collect in the liver. The result: fatty liver. How much fat collects in the liver when you are starving is a function of things I don’t really understand. One thing that _does_ promote the retention of fat in the liver, though, is alcohol. So, an alcohol only diet, or even a alcohol-prominent diet, is a good recipe for fatty liver. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/53 "2014-09-27T01:55:39Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Nor anyone else who throws around words like “toxins,” “cleansing,” “fasting,” “purification,” etc. in a health and nutrition context. Well Max the Immortal wrote “What are toxins”… he didn’t say “what are “toxins””. So he seems to believe that toxins exist so does that also mean he doesn’t have “vaguest understanding of” what that word means as well? > [@](#): > > Replace “toxins” with “evil spirits,” So does that mean Max the Immortal could have equally said “what are evil spirits and how does the liver remove them?” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/54 "2014-09-27T02:02:04Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well Max the Immortal wrote “What are toxins”… he didn’t say “what are “toxins””. So he seems to believe that toxins exist so does that also mean he doesn’t have “vaguest understanding of” what that word means as well? Yes, and he also said that your answer to the question was insufficient. It demonstrates that you don’t have a good understanding of what you think is happening. Since your getting your information from a website, it probably means that they don’t know what they’re talking about. The word toxin has a meaning in a medical context. You are not using it in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/55 "2014-09-27T02:07:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yes, and he also said that your answer to the question was insufficient. Well he could have said what the correct answer is not just say “wrong!”. What kind of answer is that anyway - I mean he replied to my question with a question then said “Oh, you’re gonna have to do better than that.”. That’s all he wrote. Not very helpful at all. > [@](#): > > It demonstrates that you don’t have a good understanding of what you think is happening. Why do you think I started this thread? I didn’t start it because I knew the answer… though I had some opinions on what might be the case. I disagree that he showed that “JohnClay is throwing words around that he doesn’t have the vaguest understanding of.” I said “Apparently the liver can remove toxins.” I didn’t say that they definitely did. I said “apparently”. > [@](#): > > …The word toxin has a meaning in a medical context. You are not using it in any meaningful way. So are you saying that the liver doesn’t remove toxins? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/56 "2014-09-27T02:11:34Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > …The word toxin has a meaning in a medical context. You are not using it in any meaningful way. What about Amateur Barbarian’s statement **Replace “toxins” with “evil spirits,”** - since you didn’t complain about that I assume you think his statement was more meaningful than my statement **Apparently the liver can remove toxins.** :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/57 "2014-09-27T02:35:55Z")
So far the only ones who have tried to answer what “toxin” is actually supposed to mean is **QtM** who defines it narrowly as substances that can harm the liver. Clearly that is not the meaning meant by most throwing that word around. And **JohnClay** who states that toxins are things that are bad. Which does sound a bit like it would equaly fit “evil spirits.” I do not think that in this context the word “toxin” actually has any real meaning. The liver metabolizes and helps excrete the products of a host of compounds including basic nutritional substances and products that the body mobilizes from its stores. It also breaks down medications and other compounds produced by other biological organisms and some that are manmade. Some of those medications and componds can cause harms at lower concentrations than others. Obviously some are beneficial at certain concentrations in certain circumstances. If the liver failed to do any of a host of parts of that process the body would experience many toxic effects. Protein is toxic in the context of a liver unable to handle the load, for example. Is whey a toxin that the liver handles? Soy? Medically [“toxin” means](http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin): > [@](#): > > a poison, especially a protein or conjugated protein produced by some higher plants, certain animals, and pathogenic bacteria, that is highly poisonous for other living organisms. Are these the toxins of which you speak? Things like cholera toxin, botulinus toxin, clostridial toxin, the toxins that cause scarlet fever and staphlycoccal scalded skin syndrome and food poisoning? Honestly I am not eating most of those very often … unless I have that special sushi dish. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/58 "2014-09-27T02:36:32Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Why do you think I started this thread? I have no idea, actually. You don’t seem inclined to accept advice or education from people who know what they’re talking about and have backed up their posts with citations from reputable sources. So that doesn’t seem to be your motivation. > [@](#): > > So are you saying that the liver doesn’t remove toxins? The liver removes a number of things from the bloodstream, some of which are toxins. The vast majority of those toxins aren’t present in a normal diet nor does a normal person’s liver need a “rest” from its function. > **[The Liver: Anatomy and 3D Illustrations](https://www.innerbody.com/image_digeov/card10-new2.html)** > > Explore Innerbody's 3D anatomical model of the liver, the body's second largest organ. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/59 "2014-09-27T02:50:00Z")
BTW about the question “Can the liver benefit from a “rest”?”… if there exists ONE reason then the answer is yes. For an answer of no, it means that EVERY possible reason needs to be ruled out… As far as alcohol goes then a rest from alcohol benefits the liver… In the OP I asked if “a short water fast or only eating certain foods such as fresh vegetables” may be beneficial for the liver… If alcohol was a normal part of the diet then only having water or fresh vegetables means that alcohol intake would be stopped so that would be beneficial! ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583/60 "2014-09-27T02:51:42Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > …The vast majority of those toxins aren’t present in a normal diet nor does a normal person’s liver need a “rest” from its function… I’d say that a lot of alcohol is a somewhat normal diet… and restricting the diet to water or fresh vegetables involve stopping the alcohol intake… ok it’s not a normal diet but I did originally ask “can…” not if a rest is _always_ beneficial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-liver-benefit-from-a-rest/699583.md?page=4)