# Can the NSA thing be explained? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878 "2013-06-13T04:10:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/1 "2013-06-13T04:10:52Z")
I’d especially like to know how they got funding to build those gigantic buildings to store all the data, what with bridges falling down all over, and what practical use they can have for the data having gathered it. From what I’ve read, The Utah Data Mining Center is to cost almost 2 billion dollars, and its mission is top secret. It’s sad, but the thing that irks me the most about this building complex is, according to the pictures I’ve seen, at least one of the buildings, which should be (IMHO) purely utilitarian, features architectural embellishments paid for with my tax dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/2 "2013-06-13T04:19:17Z")
Since the OP seems to have some definite opinions about the utility of the project, let’s move this over to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/3 "2013-06-13T04:25:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since the OP seems to have some definite opinions about the utility of the project, let’s move this over to Great Debates. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator The precise question was " Is there a utility for all the parts of the buildings ?". Answers would then "X has function Y’. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/4 "2013-06-13T04:34:25Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > The precise question was " Is there a utility for all the parts of the buildings ?". > > Answers would then "X has function Y’. I see no such question in the OP. There is, however, a lot of personal opinion which is likely to attract debate. Hence the move. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/5 "2013-06-13T04:36:51Z")
I’m sure the architectural embellishments are among the least of the ways money was wasted on that thing. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/6 "2013-06-13T04:45:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m sure the architectural embellishments are among the least of the ways money was wasted on that thing. Damn! [It](http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/51b1c97769beddb34600002b-3000-1608/ap132411996867.jpg) makes [Chartres Cathedral](http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Chartres-Cathedral.jpg) look absolutely staid! Looks like a particularly unimaginative warehouse complex to me. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/7 "2013-06-13T04:53:42Z")
This first picture[here](http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6) shows the embellishments of which I speak. Ok, not much in the grand scheme of things, but needless none the less. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/8 "2013-06-13T05:19:38Z")
Do windows at an angle cost more than windows on a straight vertical? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/9 "2013-06-13T05:27:08Z")
Just the fact that the facade is curved undoubtedly added millions to the bill. Like I said, it’s a dumb objection when there’s so much wrong with this whole project. Why should this damn building be made pretty? What do the taxpayers get out of it? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/10 "2013-06-13T05:32:07Z")
You’d rather government buildings be drab, ugly, impersonal monoliths, hated both by the public and by those forced to work inside them? Governments may be guilty of many, many crimes, but adding a modicum of architectural beauty to the world isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/11 "2013-06-13T05:35:24Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Just the fact that the facade is curved undoubtedly added millions to the bill. “Undoubtedly”? “Added millions to the bill”? I doubt it. Cite? > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Like I said, it’s a dumb objection when there’s so much wrong with this whole project. Why should this damn building be made pretty? What do the taxpayers get out of it? That’s it? A curved wall has you upset? When you know nothing about it, other than “it’s not a straight line with 90° corners”? :dubious: :rolleyes: When come back, bring facts. ETA: Well said, **Alessan**. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/12 "2013-06-13T05:39:16Z")
I mean, why stop with the NSA? All publicly-funded buildings should be ugly! Train stations, courthouses, schools, public libraries… ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/13 "2013-06-13T05:59:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I mean, why stop with the NSA? All publicly-funded buildings should be ugly! Train stations, courthouses, schools, public libraries… Doesn’t it make a difference that those buildings are actually used by the public, as opposed to this NSA monstrosity? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/14 "2013-06-13T06:02:43Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Doesn’t it make a difference that those buildings are actually used by the public, as opposed to this NSA monstrosity? The people who work there vote and pay taxes. That makes them part of the public too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/15 "2013-06-13T06:03:43Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Just the fact that the facade is curved undoubtedly added millions to the bill. Like I said, it’s a dumb objection when there’s so much wrong with this whole project. Why should this damn building be made pretty? What do the taxpayers get out of it? Millions? How do you figure? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/16 "2013-06-13T06:19:34Z")
Yes architectural embellishments are definitely the real problem here. :rolleyes: And its not like the government can actually print money or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/17 "2013-06-13T06:57:23Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > This first picture[here](http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6) shows the embellishments of which I speak. Ok, not much in the grand scheme of things, but needless none the less. Sorry, by now (about 11:55 p.m. Pacific Time), that link has all different pictures up already. For the benefit of those who missed it, I think [this is the picture](http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51b1c9796bb3f72042000005-1200-/ap13060605455.jpg) that was there. (Found by searching at google images.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/18 "2013-06-13T07:46:04Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Just the fact that the facade is curved undoubtedly added millions to the bill. Why would it cost that much? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/19 "2013-06-13T10:03:14Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > [this is the picture](http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51b1c9796bb3f72042000005-1200-/ap13060605455.jpg) that was there. (Found by searching at google images.) If that is what has you upset about the NSA, you need to re-read the stories. I think it’s interesting that this is meta-level data mining. They aren’t recording what’s said (necessarily) but rather tracking who talks to whom. It’s Constitutionally dubious, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878/20 "2013-06-13T14:43:40Z")
Everybody who works for the government must be punished! Why spend money on chairs? Donald Rumsfeld works standing up! Windows cost too much! Low-wattage fluorescent bulbs can last a lifetime! Training? It’s a government job! How hard can it be? How much oxygen do they need? Oxygen is valuable! Take 10% of it out of the air and sell it to emphysema patients for a profit! Why not mandatory blood donations daily? Sell that to the Red Cross! Those are our tax dollars! Bleed them, bleed them, bleed them! Needless to say, I find this attitude despicable. Of course, unlike the OP I’ve actually worked for government and know what I’m talking about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-nsa-thing-be-explained/660878.md?page=2)