# Can "The Passion..." save Mel's wife from everlasting hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277 "2004-02-15T01:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/1 "2004-02-15T01:20:40Z")
I certainly hope so. I’d hate to think that she spent her mortal life wed to and constantly pregnant by Mel and then eternity roasting slowly in that big George Foreman Contact Tormentor down below. (otoh, 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.) Mel on his wife’s chances of salvation in a recent [interview](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4224452/): > [@](#): > > There is no salvation for those outside the Church…Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it. He’s certainly entitled to his opinions, but why would a woman stay with a guy who makes that comment when she could be the queen bee of the really rich divorcee set? In the same interview he discusses his suicidal depression before making _The Passion_. I think a very ritzy padded room may await Mad Mel yet. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/2 "2004-02-15T01:35:46Z")
I can’t imagine she didn’t know about this before they got married. I mean, how do you have seven kids with someone you’ve lived with for almost a quarter of a century and NOT know his opinions on religion, ESPECIALLY when one of the biggest issues when a married couple is of different religions is how to raise the kids? If she minded, she would’ve divorced him a LONG time ago. Given all this, she certainly isn’t going to leave him NOW over this interview. That would just be silly beyond belief. Then, of course, the question becomes how and why she let the relationship develop this long. My theory is that she’s just as sure that Mel’s wrong as he is that she’s wrong, and that this has allowed them to settle into a relatively happy “live and let live” sort of situation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/3 "2004-02-15T01:37:40Z")
I don’t have an answer to your question, but I find it amusing that while he believes that his wife won’t be saved because she’s not Catholic, the Evangelical Christians who have embraced his film believe _he_ won’t be saved because he hasn’t accepted Jesus as his personal savior. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/4 "2004-02-15T11:32:54Z")
> [@SMTWTFS](#): > > the Evangelical Christians who have embraced his film believe _he_ won’t be saved because he hasn’t accepted Jesus as his personal savior. And just what makes them think Gibson or any other Catholic hasn’t? The Nicene Creed, recited at every Catholic mass, has this profession of faith: “We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ . . . For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven . . . He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/5 "2004-02-15T18:32:22Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > And just what makes them think Gibson or any other Catholic hasn’t? Because Catholics don’t do it precisely the same way. They’re DIFFERENT, you see. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/6 "2004-02-15T18:34:17Z")
Mel Gibson is Puddy, isn’t he? “I’m not the one going to hell.” ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/7 "2004-02-15T18:34:48Z")
I’m sure if the issue ever comes up, Mrs Gibson thinks “oh that silly Mel!” and shrugs it off. It may well be that Mel wasn’t that serious about Sectarian Catholicism when they married. He seemed to have always had some Catholic beliefs considering the number of children they had, but he’s also admitted he hasn’t been a fully righteous lad during their marriage. The ultra-Catholicism probably kicked back in during his spiritual crisis as that was his background & therefore the natural thing for him to look into. I think if anything, Mel having to reach to both the normal RCC & the Evangelical community to get support for The Passion may well result in his perspective widening. Heck, Mel’s worked with tons of people of different political & religious & sexual perspectives who haven’t written him off. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/8 "2004-02-15T19:18:55Z")
His comments don’t strike me as being terribly respectful to his wife. “Yeah, the missus, she’s pretty great. Too bad she’ll be screaming in eternal agony while I sit pretty on my cloud eating perfectly ripe peaches. Oh yeah. Tooooooo baaaaaaaaad.” ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/9 "2004-02-15T19:33:22Z")
Don’t forget the first part of his comment: “My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am.” Given that he follows a certain faith, the second part of his comment is beyond anything he can control. However, there is a loophole for poor Mrs. Gibson’s eternally lost soul. Vatican II stated, “This [doctrine] means that it would be impossible for men to be saved if they refused to enter or to remain in the Catholic Church, _unless they were unaware that her foundation by God through Jesus Christ made it a necessity_.” ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/10 "2004-02-15T19:49:05Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > However, there is a loophole for poor Mrs. Gibson’s eternally lost soul. Vatican II stated, “This [doctrine] means that it would be impossible for men to be saved if they refused to enter or to remain in the Catholic Church, _unless they were unaware that her foundation by God through Jesus Christ made it a necessity_.” But doesn’t Gibson disagree with the reforms promulgated in Vatican II? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/11 "2004-02-15T20:12:04Z")
Any guesses as to how this movie will affect Mel’s future box office sucess? Should he just give up on _Lethal Weapon 5_? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/12 "2004-02-15T20:17:43Z")
No, although people have assumed that without asking him, because he belongs to the Traditionalist off-shot of Catholicism. In his upcoming inteview with Diane Sawyer, he refers to — and defers to — the authority of Vatican II on the sin of anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/13 "2004-02-15T20:25:56Z")
My understanding is that Mel’s church does reject Vatican II. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/14 "2004-02-15T20:31:47Z")
**Marley23** , did you read my previous post? Gibson does defer to the authority of the current pope, and does accept some, but not all, of the reforms of Vatican II. As such, he departs from Traditionalist Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/15 "2004-02-15T20:52:04Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Any guesses as to how this movie will affect Mel’s future box office sucess? > > Should he just give up on _Lethal Weapon 5_? Say what? Catering to superstition and credulity can only make him more successful, since in addition to being an excellent actor and director, he’s now “a man of God.” This movie will probably get him more fame, money, and maybe some Oscar nominations if it’s as good as previews seem to indicate. Heck, I’m planning on seeing it and I’m a hardened atheist! ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/16 "2004-02-16T00:12:30Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Heck, I’m planning on seeing it and I’m a hardened atheist! That’s just because it features a nearly nude, hairy, sweaty man in a submissive position;) Hmmmm… ::checks plans for next weekend:: ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/17 "2004-02-16T05:43:18Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Don’t forget the first part of his comment: “My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am.” Given that he follows a certain faith, the second part of his comment is beyond anything he can control. I’d say following a faith that condemns his wife to hell is something he _can_ control. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/18 "2004-02-16T06:41:36Z")
Mel’s wrong, that’s all. His wife probably knows that, or she’d leave him. Being wrong isn’t the greatest crime. It will all come out in the wash. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/19 "2004-02-16T13:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > And just what makes them think Gibson or any other Catholic hasn’t? The Nicene Creed, recited at every Catholic mass, has this profession of faith: Irritatingly, quite a number of them do not even accept Catholics as Christians. Filthy buggers. > [@](#): > > I’d say following a faith that condemns his wife to hell is something he can control. If he believes it he believes it. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277/20 "2004-02-16T14:02:45Z")
Gibson, you might note, has NOT said that he believes his wife will go to hell. That is an embellishment of the OPer. Rather Gibson believes Robyn will not enjoy salvation after death. There is a difference. Let me try to illustrate: I’m a coach and in order to motivate my team to do a good job I announce that if they win I will treat them to hot fudge sundaes. If we lose, they don’t get hot fudge sundaes. Does that mean that they will then be stuck eating worms? No. The church has said that if we do x and y, we might enjoy life after death. What happens if we don’t do x is unclear and subject to speculation. But note that the church has never said that it’s one or the other: heaven OR hell. Also note that the concept of hell as a place of eternal torment and the flipside to heaven, is Dante’s (a fiction writer) vision. The RCC doesn’t necessarily subscribe to that notion and indeed has very little to say about “hell,” Jesus being fairly mute on the whole concept. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-passion-save-mels-wife-from-everlasting-hell/229277.md?page=2)