# can the police confiscate your home if they find drugs in it **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876 "2013-07-18T19:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/21 "2013-07-19T14:35:13Z")
I remember an article in Rolling Stone, late 70’s or early 80’s. The author describes riding along with some sheriffs in a county in north Florida. They baically pulled over “suspicious” people, (I.e. DWB, out of state plates, etc.) and if they were found with a decent quantity of money, like over $1000, if they couldn’t prove where it came from, it was confiscated on the spot. keep in mind in those days, there were not a lot of debit cards or easy credit cards especially for poorer people, a lot of people dealt in cash. One fellow in a beat-up old Cadillac had $6,000 in cash and was heading back to Atlanta. He claimed he made the money doing a roofing job. The law officer said he did not believe him, confiscated the lot, and told him he could drive back from Atlanta and argue it in court in a few months. Apparently this happened pretty regularly on this stretch of interstate. Of course, black people are supposed to trust police officers. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/22 "2013-07-19T14:53:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The simple answer is no. > > But as Bricker said forfeiture laws vary from state to state. In general property used to facilitate the crime can be seized if the owner committed the crime. If the bank owns it, or mom, or a neighbor you borrowed it from, then it is returned. We’ve never even attempted to have a forfeiture hearing if it is not owned by the offender. It just won’t get past the court. It has nothing to do with if they can afford a lawyer or not. This is literally the first time I’ve heard that idea. Why would I care if they have a lawyer or not? Are you a District Attorney, Attorney General or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/23 "2013-07-19T15:04:49Z")
As I understand it, in some states they can not only take anything they “suspect” might have, possibly, been payed for using drug money, but they can do so even if you aren’t convicted of any crime. And you have to PROVE, some how, that the money to pay for the item did not come from drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/24 "2013-07-19T16:46:46Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > As I understand it, in some states they can not only take anything they “suspect” might have, possibly, been payed for using drug money, but they can do so even if you aren’t convicted of any crime. > > And you have to PROVE, some how, that the money to pay for the item did not come from drugs. No, your understanding is incorrect. As **Loach** correctly describes above: > [@](#): > > …the state only needs the preponderance of evidence to win their case… That means the state must prove their case, not you. The burden of proof resides with the state. You are correct that being convicted of a crime is not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/25 "2013-07-19T17:14:31Z")
Yes, proof by preponderance of the evidence. Meaning the state’s attorney before the state’s judge will argue that their evidence that the property was in any part the proceeds of criminal activity and must demonstrate that to be only the slightest bit more likely than the drug dealer who is saying “No it wasn’t”. I wonder how the state manages to win these cases. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/26 "2013-07-20T02:53:13Z")
Fans of karmic schadenfreude may enjoy the story of [Leslie Ohta](http://articles.latimes.com/1992-05-17/news/mn-210_1_drug-treatment), who was at one time the nation’s leading asset-forfeiture proponent. ---
**Author:** ![Anotheruser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Anotheruser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anotheruser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/27 "2013-07-20T03:51:10Z")
The drug war in america is strictly profit driven. Everything they seize ends up as property of government employees or government employees friends and family. The stuff no one wants is then auctioned off to the public. There is lots of corruption in law enforcement so that the things they cannot afford to buy they just take from people on bogus drug charges. It got so bad in new york that it made national news. ---
**Author:** ![Anotheruser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Anotheruser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anotheruser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/28 "2013-07-20T03:56:59Z")
If you want to see corruption proof go to youtube and find the news report on civil asset forfeiture in the state of tennessee. It’s shocking how these pigs take thousands of dollars from people without any probable cause at all and the higher authorities condone and defend the pigs. ---
**Author:** ![\_Olive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/4af34b/32.png) [@\_Olive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Olive)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/29 "2013-07-20T08:02:46Z")
It’s been years but I have been to house auctions held by U.S. Marshals. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/30 "2013-07-20T15:14:14Z")
The general rule of fairness, is that the punishment should fit the crime. (No cruel and unusual punishment). Losing your home because your kid sold someone some drugs in it, is far beyond the proper level of fairness. The government has taken a pretty good idea - don’t allow the crook to profit from crime - and perverted it to the point where they hit the better off disproportionately hard with a ton of bricks for some relatively minor offenses - take your house for minor drug trafficking. However, on the sports(?) news the other day, they mentioned the kid who jumped onto the baseball field during the all-star game now faces up to a year in jail and $10,000 fine. Seriously??? For just running onto the field? Remember when minor crimes were the “thirty dollars or thirty days”? A guy downloading perfectly legal documents from a Harvard database is threatened with 35 years in jail for “hacking” because he automated the download. (He committed suicide). If they do this for minor crimes, is it any surprise they also take houses and cars? 'Draconian" comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/31 "2013-07-20T15:39:29Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Losing your home because your kid sold someone some drugs in it, is far beyond the proper level of fairness. Can you please provide a cite from when this happened. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/32 "2013-07-20T15:58:26Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Can you please provide a cite from when this happened. The Otah article says: > [@](#): > > Her fall has occasioned little sympathy from those she prosecuted. > > “I don’t feel very sorry for Ohta,” said Paul Derbacher, 83, of Hamden, _ **who was forced to sell his house** _ in 1988 after his grandson was charged with selling and storing drugs there. “My wife thinks she’s a barracuda.” > > Others whose homes or cars had been taken by the government demanded that her property also be seized and were irate when nothing happened. OK, it was his grandson, not his son. And the article is ambiguous about whether he had it seized. Possibly he had to sell it to pay legal fees. [http://articles.courant.com/1992-03-22/news/0000204277\_1\_leslie-ohta-prosecutors-study-property-seizure-drug-dealers/2](http://articles.courant.com/1992-03-22/news/0000204277_1_leslie-ohta-prosecutors-study-property-seizure-drug-dealers/2) > [@](#): > > Almost all the lawyers contacted cited the 1988 case of Paul Derbacher and his wife, who lost the Hamden home they had owned for 39 years after Ohta initiated forfeiture proceedings. Julian Derbacher, who was 22 when arrested for selling marijuana, had lived with his grandparents since he was 10 years old. This sems to suggest it was a seizure. > [@](#): > > New Haven lawyer Hugh Keefe called the federal asset forfeiture law "draconian. > > “If your kids or my kids are selling pot out of the house, they will take the house so swiftly and surely it’s mind-boggling. The only built-in safety valve is exercise of fair and just judgment by that office before the decision to seize the property is made, and I don’t see that coming out of that office.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/33 "2013-07-20T16:22:56Z")
Thank you for that, MD200. Your initial comment sounded like hyperbole to me, since it made reference to a “kid” (i.e. underage), and made it sound like someone was potentially having their house seized when they hadn’t committed any crimes. I see now, from your link, that Derbacher and his wife had been charged with possession themselves, and their grandchild was 22 years old (and therefore not a kid). I am not disagreeing with your reference to draconian, and the facts of the Derbacher case may not have warranted the charges, but the facts in that article don’t exactly support the claim that someone is subject to “Losing your home because your kid sold someone some drugs in it”. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the owner has to have some culpability before their home can be taken. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/34 "2013-07-20T16:41:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Paul Derbacher said he had no idea his grandson had marijuana in a suitcase in his room. The Derbachers, now aged 85 and 83, have since moved to West Haven. “We’ve been devastated ever since,” Derbacher said of losing his home and the legal fees they incurred. _ **They had been charged with possession of marijuana as well, because marijuana was found in their home, but were given a special form of probation in lieu of prosecution** _. Sounds like the old prosecutor tactic of “threaten them with 10 life sentences so they plead guilty to what you want, even if they are not really guilty.” It sounds like a Kafkaesque tactic; threaten them with possessing enough for trafficking (which would make them also liable to the trafficking charge, I assume). They plead guilty on a deal, get probation, but now the state can steal their house. Note that in the article, a local defense lawyer who dealt with Otah’s cases did say they would “take the house if your kid dealt drugs out of it”. Presumably he was closer to the action than us, and the Derbacher case was by no means an isolated one. If it’s hyperbole, it’s an involved lawyer’s view. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/35 "2013-07-21T05:08:57Z")
Googling ‘asset forfeiture abuse’ returns several pages of relevant articles topped by an [ACLU](http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/asset-forfeiture-abuse) congregate page where the first article is about them settling a class action suit against a city where around 3 million dollars had been confiscated from motorists where no charges had been filed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/36 "2013-07-24T17:55:12Z")
[The cops will take your money if they find drug residue on it](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/24/19657050-judge-orders-more-than-1m-to-be-returned-to-exotic-dancer?lite). [Luckily that can’t happen to you if you’re not a drug dealer.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money/) In this case at least the judge had some common sense. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/37 "2013-07-24T18:46:02Z")
Umm, isn’t a persons primary residence subject to some special protections related to forfeiture and seizure? I’m not saying they can’t or won’t do it, just that there might be some extra requirements for taking a persons home that aren’t necessary for a vehicle or other property. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/38 "2013-08-06T22:07:45Z")
Here is a recent, eye opening [article](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman?currentPage=all) in the New Yorker on the use and abuse of civil forfeiture. In one, documented case (by the DA!) it was basically give us your money or we take the kids to CPS - and this was an un-ticketed traffic stop… The couple stopped were told by the DA > [@](#): > > They could face felony charges for “money laundering” and “child endangerment,” in which case they would go to jail and their children would be handed over to foster care. Or they could sign over their cash to the city of Tenaha, and get back on the road. “No criminal charges shall be filed,” a waiver she drafted read, “and our children shall not be turned over to CPS,” or Child Protective Services. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/39 "2013-08-07T12:25:15Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Here is a recent, eye opening [article](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman?currentPage=all) in the New Yorker on the use and abuse of civil forfeiture. Today is August 7, 2013. The article is dated August 12, 2013. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876/40 "2013-08-07T14:42:17Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Today is August 7, 2013. The article is dated August 12, 2013. > > 😕 The New Yorker is a print magazine that gets “mirrored” online. Previous discussion on why magazines come out [before the cover date](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=670585). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-confiscate-your-home-if-they-find-drugs-in-it/663876.md?page=3)