# can the police order you back into your own house, when they're arresting someone across the street? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819 "2013-04-16T05:17:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/21 "2013-04-16T20:51:46Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > **Nobody** believes that a complaint about police abuse, made after the fact, is going to do any good. We need police to maintain order, but who will bell the cat? As much as we may need police, we also need for the police to be watched. And take pics. Pics or it didn’t happen. As a news photog I say “Thank you, you got it right.” 99%+ of officers & their deeds are above question, the few who are in error make it impossible for everyone involved. You have a right to take video or still pictures provided you do not hinder the investigation. ‘Because I say so’ does not count as hindering. Really anything a public official of any sort does should pass the test of public scrutiny. If it doesn’t, there’s a good change they are in the wrong. And I say that knowing full well a suspect who runs or fights is going to get the crap kicked out of him / her. That is to be expected. It’s the other stuff, the abuse of authority behavior that needs to be curbed. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/22 "2013-04-17T02:57:47Z")
ICE was on our property once; they were arresting and deporting our tenant who had claimed political asylum, but not followed thru on the necessary paperwork. Men in brown jackets that said ICE on them all around the perimeter. They told us to go back in the house. There were a lot of them, we did. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/23 "2013-04-17T03:02:38Z")
Im really not getting the whole obnoxious defiant posturing of “you can’t make me”. If you truly dont have other important things in your life to do besides gawking at others, go inside and gawk from your window. Why make their job more stressful or risky than it is. If you want to assist so badly, go join the police academy. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/24 "2013-04-17T04:56:02Z")
Some of my neighbors and I (we lived in a big apartment building) watched a riot from outside the entrance door to our building. Some cops came along and saw pretty much immediately that we weren’t involved, and tried to convince us to go inside, but it was all WAYYY too interesting. I was drinking out of a soda bottle and one of the cops snatched it out of my hand and sniffed it, presumably to find out whether I’d mixed in some alcohol, but I hadn’t. Anyway, they moved on after giving us nothing more than strong suggestions for our own safety. There was a point where a couple of guys broke into a drug store directly across the street from us, and we could see they were trying to start a fire inside. That’s when one guy suggested we should all go over there and defend the place. Everyone else started laughing at that one. Then the same guy suggested we go find a cop who would stop it, and we had a good laugh about that one too. There were hundreds of people out smashing storefront windows and looting, and they burned a couple of cop cars, and none of us wanted to mix into the mob looking for a cop. I think the cops we encountered were unusually well trained, or were on a very tight leash that night, under orders not to make unnecessary arrests or use excessive force. I think they didn’t order us inside because they knew they couldn’t order us inside. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/25 "2013-04-17T13:29:58Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Im really not getting the whole obnoxious defiant posturing of “you can’t make me”. If you truly dont have other important things in your life to do besides gawking at others, go inside and gawk from your window. > > Why make their job more stressful or risky than it is. If you want to assist so badly, go join the police academy. Some people have a basic distrust of law enforcement and want to witness the situation. If this were a debate it would boil down to… There are some situations where it is proper (danger etc) There are some where it’s not (don’t want any witnesses, etc) Should they have to take the time and effort to explain or adjudicate the situation right then and there? No. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/26 "2013-04-17T13:50:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > …There was a point where a couple of guys broke into a drug store directly across the street from us, and we could see they were trying to start a fire inside. That’s when one guy suggested we should all go over there and defend the place. Everyone else started laughing at that one. Then the same guy suggested we go find a cop who would stop it, and we had a good laugh about that one too. There were hundreds of people out smashing storefront windows and looting, and they burned a couple of cop cars, and none of us wanted to mix into the mob looking for a cop… If only there was some magical device that would let you communicate with emergency personnel without going to find them yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/27 "2013-04-17T15:02:49Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Im really not getting the whole obnoxious defiant posturing of “you can’t make me”. If you truly dont have other important things in your life to do besides gawking at others, go inside and gawk from your window. > > Why make their job more stressful or risky than it is. If you want to assist so badly, go join the police academy. That makes me think of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=686162). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/28 "2013-04-17T17:37:57Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Im really not getting the whole obnoxious defiant posturing of “you can’t make me”. If you truly dont have other important things in your life to do besides gawking at others, go inside and gawk from your window. > > Why make their job more stressful or risky than it is. If you want to assist so badly, go join the police academy. I think it’s more a matter of defining what and what isn’t legal for cops to do to a person who’s not breaking the law. I’m not going to get pushed around by cops just because they have a badge- if they want to search my vehicle, they’d better have a warrant, and if they want me to stop doing whatever it is that I’m doing that’s not breaking the law, they’d better have a damn good reason that doesn’t encompass “We don’t want you watching what we do to this guy.” If they’re on the up-and-up, they have nothing to worry about me not interfering, but watching, taking pictures, etc… If not, then I’m doing a good thing by not intervering, and observing and taking pictures, etc… Ultimately there’s no good reason that I should have to go inside except in the case of shooting or other projectile violence. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/29 "2013-04-17T21:49:31Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You have a right to watch at a safe distance and take photographs. But can you afford to vindicate that right in court when the police mistakenly decide that you do not and wish to enforce their will? Maybe you will be the one who comes out on top in court, like these[two brothers](http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Brothers-who-sued-Harris-County-sheriff-s-office-1787539.php): > [@](#): > > The Ibarras sued Harris County and the sheriff’s office in 2004, alleging their civil rights were violated when deputies stormed their home, seized their film and arrested them after one of the brothers photographed a drug raid at a neighbor’s home. > The case went to trial in February, but the county agreed to pay a $1.7 million settlement — without admitting any liability or accepting any fault for what happened to the Ibarras — after a federal jury already had heard two weeks of testimony. The judge also awarded them $1.4 million in legal fees. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/30 "2013-04-18T15:04:13Z")
Somewhat similarly, I was in a pizza place in LA two years ago when there was a riot and the police told us if we left we’d be arrested. After about an hour most people escaped through the back door, but we waited till everything had calmed down - still a couple hundred cops around - and left by the front door. Could we really have been arrested? ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/31 "2013-04-18T15:09:33Z")
> [@Win\_Place\_Show](#): > > # 2 - would it be within the officers’ rights to order you back inside your own house (even though you aren’t “bothering anyone” He has no right to order you back in your house, that does not mean he would not though, but a complaint against him is all you could do, unless force or such were used. > [@](#): > > # 3 - are you obligated to go back inside your house at that point (again, your intent is to not “bother anyone”) No, you are not obligated. The 1st AM protects freedom of movement, and the 4th prohibits him from taking action against you if you do not go back in. - > [@](#): > > or is there some sort of “this is my property, and I’ll stand here quietly if I want to” loophole that you can claim? What would be the charge, if you refused? Somehow “interfering with a police investigation” seems a bit of a stretch. You have a right to watch, period, any such charge, as an example, Ohio, would not stand, and it would be false arrest if arrested for failure to comply. 2921.31 Obstructing official business. (A) No person, without privilege to do so and with purpose to prevent, obstruct, or delay the performance by a public official of any authorized act within the public official’s official capacity, shall do any act that hampers or impedes a public official in the performance of the public official’s lawful duties. Only an idiot cop would arrest for such. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/32 "2013-04-18T15:15:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It’s such a vague statute that IMHO is unconstitutionally vague. It doesn’t put a citizen on notice as to what he is/ is not allowed to do. There is a supreme court decision, forget it now, but have it in my notes, that a criminal defendant who is charged with a law that is so vague that a “reasonably prudent person” (or words of similar import) would not know he is breaking the law, can not be covicted, of course, that needs court testimony from the DF ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/33 "2013-04-18T15:25:15Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > There is a supreme court decision, forget it now, but have it in my notes, that a criminal defendant who is charged with a law that is so vague that a “reasonably prudent person” (or words of similar import) would not know he is breaking the law, can not be covicted, of course, that needs court testimony from the DF I knew it had something to do with loitering, and found it, quoting from Chicago v. Morales (1999); ..Lack of clarity in the description of the loiterer’s duty to obey a dispersal order might not render the ordinance unconstitutionally vague if the definition of the forbidden conduct were clear, but it does buttress our conclusion that the entire ordinance fails to give the ordinary citizen adequate notice of what is forbidden and what is permitted. … ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/34 "2013-04-18T15:42:49Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Somewhat similarly, I was in a pizza place in LA two years ago when there was a riot and the police told us if we left we’d be arrested. After about an hour most people escaped through the back door, but we waited till everything had calmed down - still a couple hundred cops around - and left by the front door. Could we really have been arrested? In LA, you can be shot! ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/35 "2013-04-19T15:15:52Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It’s such a vague statute that IMHO is unconstitutionally vague. It doesn’t put a citizen on notice as to what he is/ is not allowed to do. I checked my notes and, I cited the wrong case I had in mind, this is it; …We reverse the judgment against Palmer because the ordinance is so vague and lacking in ascertainable standards of guilt that, as applied to Palmer, it failed to give “a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden. . . .” United States v. Harriss, 347 U. S. 612, 347 U. S. 617 (1954)… > **[Palmer v. City of Euclid, 402 U.S. 544 (1971)](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/402/544/)** > > Palmer v. City of Euclid ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/36 "2013-04-19T17:12:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, the police can order you to go back in your house. Whether or not you are legally bound to obey that order is the question. They can charge you with some kind of ‘interfering’ if you don’t obey, and then there’s the question of whether that charge is legitimate. Make your life easier, go inside and look out the window, with your cell phone camera recording everything. If they’re gonna chase me back into my house anyway, then screw the crappy cell phone camera. Even my 2006-vintage video cam has a 30x zoom. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/37 "2013-04-19T20:12:43Z")
“ **SciFiSam** - - Somewhat similarly, I was in a pizza place in LA two years ago when there was a riot and the police told us if we left we’d be arrested. After about an hour most people escaped through the back door, but we waited till everything had calmed down - still a couple hundred cops around - and left by the front door. Could we really have been arrested?” Are you sure the cops didn’t want you to stay there in case they got hungry while riot fighting and wanted to duck in for a quick slice? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/38 "2013-04-19T20:34:19Z")
The police can order you to do anything they want. You can refuse to obey their orders. They can arrest you and take you to jail. You can hire a lawyer to have the charges dropped and your arrest record expunged. Personally, I’d probably just take the easy way out and watch from my front room. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/39 "2013-04-19T20:40:13Z")
A few years ago, before 9/11, I returned from work to see a swat team sneaking around the house two doors down from my house. There was a police car blocking my driveway. A cop gestured at me to get the hell out of there. I rolled down my window, waved the cop toward me, and when he got close enough to speak with without raising my voice said: “You’re blocking my driveway.” He rolled his eyes, gestured me to back up a little and moved his car. I parked in my driveway and went into the house. After changing out of my work clothes, I went out the back door and watched for awhile and then went back inside. It turned out my neighbor was gone for the weekend and his teenage son Joe had a drinking, coke snorting, and poker party. Joe lost a lot of money at poker. He also freaked out because his girlfriend, finding out that he had a party and didn’t tell her about it, threatened to break up with him. He had grabbed a shotgun, loaded it, and was threatening to shoot himself if she broke up with him. Idiot. Oh - the cops talked Joe into giving up the gun and noone was hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Solidscooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Solidscooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solidscooter)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819/40 "2015-02-10T20:23:43Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > As a news photog I say “Thank you, you got it right.” > > 99%+ of officers & their deeds are above question, the few who are in error make it impossible for everyone involved. > > You have a right to take video or still pictures provided you do not hinder the investigation. ‘Because I say so’ does not count as hindering. > > Really anything a public official of any sort does should pass the test of public scrutiny. If it doesn’t, there’s a good change they are in the wrong. And I say that knowing full well a suspect who runs or fights is going to get the crap kicked out of him / her. That is to be expected. > > It’s the other stuff, the abuse of authority behavior that needs to be curbed. It’s true. I’m a local anchor now but used to be a reporter. There were plenty of times where my photog and I were on public property, very far from a scene and police for whatever reason walked 1/2 a mile up the road to push us back. I watched a video today in which a photog and reporter got the permission of a private landowner to be in their yard to do a live shot near a crime scene. The cop, on live television, put her hand over the lens and was screaming at them both to leave. Is she allowed to do ANY of that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-police-order-you-back-into-your-own-house-when-theyre-arresting-someone-across-the-street/655819.md?page=3)