# Can the Pope retire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251 "2002-07-22T18:27:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/1 "2002-07-22T18:27:28Z")
I am not saying that he should. However, I am wondering, given his frail health, if he has the option or must serve until death. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/2 "2002-07-22T18:42:02Z")
The pope can abdicate; there was a revision of canon law in the 1980s that provides for this (although six popes have abdicated, none since A.D. 1415). ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/3 "2002-07-22T18:54:07Z")
However, the Pope doesn’t want to abdicate. And there are no provisions for the papacy if the pope becomes senile or lapses into a long-term coma, etc. An article in the LA Times this weekend talked about how hard it was for anyone in the RCC to even bring up the topic of abdication/retirement. If the Pope were a parish priest or a bishop, he would have been forced to retire at age 80 (or earlier if his superiors felt he wasn’t capable anymore). However, the Pope only answers to God. And God ain’t talkin’ ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/4 "2002-07-22T19:04:55Z")
Not to be cynical but I was wondering if they decided to keep up the pope’s hectic summer schedule to aid his “natural retirement”. I am sure his current world tour is not going to improve his health any. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/5 "2002-07-22T19:07:23Z")
Reportedly, towards the end of his Papacy, Paul VI wanted to step down due to his failing health, and was strongly advised not to. That may have had something to do with the revision of canon law. Even if it doesn’t present a legal crisis, the RCC would not like to have to figure out how to deal with a retired Pope from the standpoint of protocols and so on. ---
**Author:** ![mazzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@mazzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazzer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/6 "2002-07-22T19:29:57Z")
So if the Pope goes into a coma, do they pull a Weekend at Bernie’s? Or is the RCC just without a pope for a while? As BobT said there are no provisions for this but what would they likely do? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/7 "2002-07-22T19:53:32Z")
I don’t think they would do anything. There really aren’t any pressing matters the Pope has to deal with on a day-to-day basis (see: length of time between Galileo’s excommunication and pardon). The day-to-day activities of the Vatican could certainly be taken over by the residing Cardinals. Any “For The Pope’s Eyes Only” documents would be held until there’s a pope with a consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/8 "2002-07-22T19:58:13Z")
If the Pope slipped into a coma he would still be the Pope until he dies, at which point a new one would be elected, following the standard procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/9 "2002-07-22T21:25:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **BobT** _However, the Pope doesn’t want to abdicate. And there are no provisions for the papacy if the pope becomes senile or lapses into a long-term coma, etc. > > An article in the LA Times this weekend talked about how hard it was for anyone in the RCC to even bring up the topic of abdication/retirement. If the Pope were a parish priest or a bishop, he would have been forced to retire at age 80 (or earlier if his superiors felt he wasn’t capable anymore). However, the Pope only answers to God. Actually, [the Richard Bourdeaux article](http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10508)\* you refer to was in error, as was pointed out by a scholarly Catholic layman on another board. I quote his post in response to the news story, also in that thread. > [@](#): > > There is about as much chance of a leadership crisis in the Vatican as there is the possibility that I may eventually someday support Ted Kennedy. > > Canons 334, 335, 340, 345, 347.2, 349, 353, 355.2, 358, 359, and 360 (among others) of the Code of Canon Law, with their sub-referenced laws and regulations of the Holy See, virtually guarantee that there will be no power vacuum or crisis of leadership. The Vatican has a stringent set of laws in place to deal with an incapacitated Pontiff, which basically consists of a temporary consistory of senior cardinals in the Roman Curia acting as caretakers until the restoration of the Pontiff’s abilities or his death. > > I realize that Richard Boudreaux was hired by the Los Angeles Times to sell newspapers rather than for his knowledge or accuracy in reporting the inner workings of the Holy See, but it’s sad, nevertheless, that his tabloid-style journalism would have people believe that the Vatican leadership is up for grabs when the Pope becomes too ill to govern, like it’s some sort of backwoods sub-Saharan African banana republic dictatorship. > > But, what the heck, he got paid for his article, didn’t he? 😉 - [sub]Link to reprint of article at Pizza Parlor. The original online article is now in the LA Times archives and requires registration to access.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/10 "2002-07-22T23:11:34Z")
Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/11 "2002-07-23T09:51:48Z")
Thanks for the information everyone 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/12 "2002-07-23T10:04:41Z")
[slight hi-jack] What if the Pope ‘did’ a King George II and went on a ‘rampage’ of madness - would his eccentricities just be ignored, or would the church, having accepted his authority & infallibility, have to accept his rulings / speeches / ideals? I guess he would just be ‘restrained’ from public appearances. [/ slight hi-jack] ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/13 "2002-07-23T11:40:46Z")
That would be George III. From a Canon Law point of view, the question would be whether the Pope was “impeded”. Impediment could arise from physical or mental illness, or from something quite external (e.g. kidnapping, imprisonment). Obviously if the problem were dementia it could be difficult to know where to draw the line between growing forgetfulness and irritability on the one hand and incapacity to fulfil the pontifical office on the other, but the question of principal is clear enough. If the pope were sufficiently demented to be impeded - and this is probably largely a psychogeriatric question on which appropriate medical advice would be sought - then the arrangements described in **Polycarp’s** post would kick in. ---
**Author:** ![G.Cornelius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@G.Cornelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Cornelius)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/14 "2002-07-23T11:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\*[slight hi-jack] > What if the Pope ‘did’ a King George II and went on a ‘rampage’ of madness… > [/ slight hi-jack] \*\* I think that you mean to refer to King George III. See: [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ge/Georg3GB.html](http://www.bartleby.com/65/ge/Georg3GB.html) However, it is an interesting question. If the pope is only answerable to God, then, no matter how objectionable his behaviour, how can he be removed? Some past popes have certainly been highly objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/15 "2002-07-23T14:20:41Z")
If the Pope got too out of hand he could always be poisoned by his cardinals, as was tried with Leo X, ([http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09162a.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09162a.htm)), possibly successfully with John VIII, Alexander V, ([http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2000/004/2.22.html](http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2000/004/2.22.html)) and much more recently with John Paul I ([http://www.tldm.org/news3/johnpaulI.htm](http://www.tldm.org/news3/johnpaulI.htm)) though take the last one with a pinch of salt ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/16 "2002-07-23T14:34:36Z")
Now that’s hardly overflowing with Christian virutes now, is it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-pope-retire/120251/17 "2002-07-23T21:18:58Z")
Some fundamentalist Catholics will claim that JP I died through direct divine intervntion, because he was about to commit some sort of unPapal no-no, and God wouldn’t allow that. Take that as you will.