# Can The POTUS Be Impeached For Crimes Committed Before He/She Took Office?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 11, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450 "2016-11-11T02:57:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/1 "2016-11-11T02:57:16Z")
Or must it be for wrongs committed while in office?
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/2 "2016-11-11T02:59:05Z")
Edited: Wait… I thought I knew…
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/3 "2016-11-11T03:13:25Z")
OK, I can’t find the page I saw earlier or last night. I can’t find anything right now saying that a president can be impeached for crimes committed before taking office. Now that I’m thinking about it, a president _can_ be tried for crimes committed before becoming president, but I don’t know if s/he can be impeached for them. The Constitution says:
The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
It doesn’t say _when_ the crimes are committed.
---
### Author:  [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/4 "2016-11-11T05:33:07Z")
POTUS can be impeached for anything the House says qualifies as a high crime or misdemeanor; it doesn’t actually have to be anything currently in the criminal code.
The Nixon articles of impeachment, for example, say things like “Richard M. Nixon has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.” It’s not an indictment alleging he violated section thus-and-such of the law.
---
### Author:  [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/5 "2016-11-11T05:52:39Z")
Here is a helpful overview: [Wiki Article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States)
Short version: the president (or other government official) may be impeached for crimes committed during office or before. Impeachment is equivalent to an indictment and is conducted by the House of Representatives. The Senate then conducts a trial.
---
### Author:  [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/6 "2016-11-11T05:56:30Z")
Frankly, the way that clause is written the POTUS can be impeached for anything the House wants to impeach him/her for. They define the terms.
---
### Author:  [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/7 "2016-11-11T06:02:46Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#):
>
> Frankly, the way that clause is written the POTUS can be impeached for anything the House wants to impeach him/her for. They define the terms.
Yes. The Supreme Court has been asked to review an impeachment and it refused. The “sole power” to try impeachments is held by the Senate. If someone thinks they’ve been impeached for an invalid reason, that’s the _only_ place to argue it, because there are no appeals once they decide.
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/8 "2016-11-11T14:20:29Z")
The POTUS can be impeached for anything the House wants, and removed from office by the Senate if they concur, but that’s as far as it goes - Congress cannot impose any penalty beyond that (they can’t fine/send to prison/execute/slap).
POTUS would have to be convicted in a state or federal court, under the usual standards of evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt, and the prosecution would have to show a violation of some existing law, to suffer any legal penalty.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/9 "2016-11-11T14:53:48Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#):
>
> Yes. The Supreme Court has been asked to review an impeachment and it refused. The “sole power” to try impeachments is held by the Senate. If someone thinks they’ve been impeached for an invalid reason, that’s the _only_ place to argue it, because there are no appeals once they decide.
The Senate can’t overturn an impeachment, though (which happens in The House). They can decline to remove the prez from office, but that’s it.
---
### Author:  [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/10 "2016-11-11T15:16:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> The POTUS can be impeached for anything the House wants, and removed from office by the Senate if they concur, **but that’s as far as it goes** - Congress cannot impose any penalty beyond that (they can’t fine/send to prison/execute/slap).
> …
> Regards,
> Shodan
\*\*bolding \*\*is mine
\
The Senate may also impose a ban from holding public office in the future.
> [@US Constitution](#):
>
> Judgment in Cases of Impeachments shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States, but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment, and Punishment, according to Law.
\
Removal from office by impeachment and conviction does not preclude criminal conviction and incarceration for the same incidents. Such criminal case would have to be brought and tried through the relevant court. Double Jeopardy is not implicated.
What is not entirely clear to me is if a public official who has been impeached (or merely threatened with impeachment such as Nixon) could resign his/her office and thus prevent the imposition of a ban on holding future public office. There have been incidents where the office holder resigned but the impeachment proceedings in the Senate were not dismissed until more than a month later, so perhaps such proceedings could still continue despite the resignation?
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/11 "2016-11-11T16:59:53Z")
Your nitpick is valid - I sit corrected.
I see no reason why impeachment could not continue after a resignation, and a subsequent ban on holding public office.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-potus-be-impeached-for-crimes-committed-before-he-she-took-office/771450/12 "2016-11-11T16:59:57Z")
> [@Iggy](#):
>
> What is not entirely clear to me is if a public official who has been impeached (or merely threatened with impeachment such as Nixon) could resign his/her office and thus prevent the imposition of a ban on holding future public office. There have been incidents where the office holder resigned but the impeachment proceedings in the Senate were not dismissed until more than a month later, so perhaps such proceedings could still continue despite the resignation?
Looking into it, it appears that the closest example to that is [George W. English, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Illinois](http://www.fjc.gov/history/home.nsf/page/judges_impeachments.html). But the Senate adjourned its trial immediately after his resignation. It just didn’t formally dismiss the proceedings until later.
Samuel B. Kent, U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, made it more complicated.
> [@](#):
>
> Impeached by the U.S. House of Representatives, June 19, 2009, on charges of sexual assault, obstructing and impeding an official proceeding, and making false and misleading statements; Resigned from office, June 30, 2009. On July 20, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives agreed to a resolution not to pursue further the articles of impeachment, and on July 22, 2009, the Senate, sitting as a court of impeachment, dismissed the articles.
But Kent kept trying to retire, to keep his pension, and the House wanted him punished.
> [@](#):
>
> Judge Kent submitted his resignation on June 2, 2009, with the provison [sic] that it would not take effect for a full year. This angered the membership of the House Judiciary Committee, which voted unanimously to send four Articles of Impeachment to the full House of Representatives on June 10, 2009.[4] The articles were passed on June 19, 2009,[5] making Judge Kent the first federal judge to be impeached since Walter L. Nixon, Jr. in 1989.[6] Kent thereafter submitted a new letter of resignation to the Senate on June 25, 2009, taking effect on June 30, 2009.[7][8] On June 30, President Barack Obama accepted his resignation.[9] On July 20, the House of Representatives passed a resolution[10] asking the Senate to end former Judge Kent’s trial. Two days later, the Senate agreed to the resolution.[11]
The trial didn’t truly continue. It just sat around waiting for a resolution.
An impeachment of a President is instant and urgent and political theater. With three data points, it’s hard to lay down hard rules for how it should go. I would think that the Nixon example, when everything stopped instantly upon his resignation, shows the modern day procedure.