# Can the President be Indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896 "2017-07-22T18:45:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/1 "2017-07-22T18:45:36Z")
A Clinton era memo from the office of Kenneth Starr argues that a president can be indicted. > **[Buried 19-year-old memo indicates special counsel Mueller might have...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/22/1683028/-Buried-19-year-old-memo-indicates-special-counsel-Mueller-might-have-authority-to-indict-Trump)** > > With Donald Trump focused on the legality of pardons for himself and selected minions, and spewing a torrent of early morning official White House statements in 140-character bits amid new revelations about Russian contacts, legal... > [@](#): > > The 56-page memo, locked in the National Archives for nearly two decades and obtained by The New York Times under the Freedom of Information Act, amounts to the most thorough government-commissioned analysis rejecting a generally held view that presidents are immune from prosecution while in office. > > “It is proper, constitutional, and legal for a federal grand jury to indict a sitting president for serious criminal acts that are not part of, and are contrary to, the president’s official duties,” the Starr office memo concludes. “In this country, no one, even President Clinton, is above the law.” Here’s a link to the original NY Times article, although some of you may run into pay wall issues. > **[Newly Disclosed Clinton-era Memo Says Presidents Can Be Indicted (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/03/us/savage-nyt-foia-starr-memo-presidential.html)** > > Can presidents be indicted while they remain in office? Conventional wisdom says no, but a newfound Office of Independent Counsel legal memo says yes. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/2 "2017-07-22T18:53:16Z")
Here’s a link to a PDF of the 60 page memo. > **[Savage-NYT-FOIA-Starr-memo-presidential.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3899216/Savage-NYT-FOIA-Starr-memo-presidential.pdf)** > > 3.68 MB ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/3 "2017-07-23T03:07:53Z")
Could a _state_ grand jury indict him, as well? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/4 "2017-07-23T03:47:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Could a _state_ grand jury indict him, as well? To be honest I haven’t had a chance to read the memo so I don’t know if it addresses that or not. And of course a memo doesn’t have any legal force so it remains to be seen if he could even be indicted at the federal level. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/5 "2017-07-24T03:09:17Z")
Wasn’t Grant arrested for speeding while in office and forced to pay a fine? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/6 "2017-07-24T03:15:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Wasn’t Grant arrested for speeding while in office and forced to pay a fine? Speeding on what? A horse? A train? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/7 "2017-07-24T03:53:01Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Speeding on what? A horse? A train? Horse drawn coach. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/8 "2017-07-25T00:36:36Z")
Vice president Agnew was indicted and convicted for tax fraud in the 1970s. Agnew was replaced by Gerry Ford. It seems only sensible that the Prez could be charged with a crime while in office under the no man is abovs the law maxim. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/9 "2017-07-25T03:33:41Z")
Starr was actually a deep cover democratic operative and this report was funded by the DNC after initially being funded by the GOP. Suffice to say I am skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/10 "2017-07-25T03:55:48Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > Starr was actually a deep cover democratic operative and this report was funded by the DNC after initially being funded by the GOP. Suffice to say I am skeptical. I have to admit my skepticism of your skepticism, pending elaboration. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/11 "2017-07-25T04:17:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I have to admit my skepticism of your skepticism, pending elaboration. I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/12 "2017-07-25T04:43:59Z")
Sarcasm is an unfortunately endangered animal these days. There’s very little one can say ironically that can’t be found on the internet expressed with complete sincerity. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-president-be-indicted/791896/13 "2017-07-25T12:11:13Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Vice president Agnew was indicted and convicted for tax fraud in the 1970s. [pedant mode]He pled nolo contendere, no contest, and accepted the sentence.[/pm] > [@](#): > > It seems only sensible that the Prez could be charged with a crime while in office under the no man is abovs the law maxim. Even if it’s the deep state trying to get revenge for losing the election?