# Can the Socratic Method win any argument
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 20, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809 "2014-02-20T18:40:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/41 "2014-02-20T21:56:49Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> yes, but in that case the person asking the questions has to already have stuff defined. who is to say his definitions are correct?
No. You identify a condition, come to an agreement that it is held as a condition and proceed.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/42 "2014-02-20T22:00:12Z")
The Socratic Method is a teaching tool, not a means of argument. The professor asks these seemingly annoying questions to explore the basis for the student’s statements and see their logical extensions. These questions prompt the student to expound upon his or her position, think critically about it, and modify it as necessary. It is not to prove the student right or wrong or to “win” an argument.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/43 "2014-02-20T22:00:14Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#):
>
> No. You identify a condition, come to an agreement that it is held as a condition and proceed.
so you would both have to agree that violence meant physical harm, it couldn’t mean threat as well as harm? maybe there is a better example, its just an example. i’m using the word definition and you are using the word condition. how do they differ?
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### Author:  [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/44 "2014-02-20T22:01:51Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> so you would both have to agree that violence meant physical harm, it couldn’t mean threat as well as harm? maybe there is a better example, its just an example. i’m using the word definition and you are using the word condition. how do they differ?
Do a search for implication, or take a few logic courses?
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/45 "2014-02-20T22:02:23Z")
The point of the Socratic method is to lead the person to answer their own question, rather than to get them to agree with your opinion. It is very possible that a person will get down to their barest assumptions and still disagree with you. The Socratic method prevents you from being able to advocate your own ideas, so that means you’ve just lost the argument.
That’s why the Socratic method is a teaching method, not an argument method. It helps you learn new things by applying what you already know.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/46 "2014-02-20T22:03:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> It relies on both sides discussing ideas in good faith. It requires all parties openly and honestly explore ideas instead of attempting to defend a particular, preconceived stance using whatever tools available.
It does not hurt to have someone recording the discussion who will shape the discussion favorably to whichever side the scribe wishes would win.
= = =
There is nothing in the Socratic Method as employed in real life that can guarantee a “win,” even by people who are trying to “abuse” the method. If the person playing “Socrates” tries to abuse the method against a person who is brighter and more knowledgeable, the erstwhile "Socrates"will have his head handed to him in a genuine discussion.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/47 "2014-02-20T22:03:45Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> The Socratic Method is a teaching tool, not a means of argument. The professor asks these seemingly annoying questions to explore the basis for the student’s statements and see their logical extensions. These questions prompt the student to expound upon his or her position, think critically about it, and modify it as necessary. It is not to prove the student right or wrong or to “win” an argument.
usernameforbidden says:
You identify a condition, come to an agreement that it is held as a condition and proceed.
that sounds like there is one right answer. it sounds like you are saying there is not one right answer, it is a method of “expanding” your thinking by having your ideas challenged. maybe i’m getting things confused though.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/48 "2014-02-20T22:06:49Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#):
>
> Do a search for implication, or take a few logic courses?
seems to me like you’re trying to back out of answering what are the conditions, definition, whatever, for “freedom”. maybe you’re not but if it is really such a simple matter you could just say how “freedom” is determined so that you can apply the socratic method to the term.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/49 "2014-02-20T22:07:49Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> The point of the Socratic method is to lead the person to answer their own question, rather than to get them to agree with your opinion. It is very possible that a person will get down to their barest assumptions and still disagree with you. The Socratic method prevents you from being able to advocate your own ideas, so that means you’ve just lost the argument.
>
> That’s why the Socratic method is a teaching method, not an argument method. It helps you learn new things by applying what you already know.
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> It does not hurt to have someone recording the discussion who will shape the discussion favorably to whichever side the scribe wishes would win.
>
> = = =
>
> There is nothing in the Socratic Method as employed in real life that can guarantee a “win,” even by people who are trying to “abuse” the method. If the person playing “Socrates” tries to abuse the method against a person who is brighter and more knowledgeable, the erstwhile "Socrates"will have his head handed to him in a genuine discussion.
ah ok. thanks!!!
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/50 "2014-02-20T22:08:52Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> i mean by abusing the method and basically wearing someone down until the point they give up from frustration. not advocating it though.
That is not “abusing” the Socratic method, it is trolling.
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/51 "2014-02-20T22:25:28Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> The knifing method.
Hemlock.
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### Author:  [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/52 "2014-02-20T22:41:02Z")
Probably Conium maculatum.
Infusion of it in wine, I think.
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### Author:  [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/53 "2014-02-21T00:45:37Z")
Okay, after reading this thread, I’ve come to 2 possible conclusions…
1. The OP is a fan of Martin Short’s “Nathan Thurm” character from his days on SNL.
B. The OP just discovered Monty Python’s “Argument Clinic Sketch” and is pretending he’s John Cleese.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/54 "2014-02-21T00:48:30Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#):
>
> Okay, after reading this thread, I’ve come to 2 possible conclusions…
>
> 1. The OP is a fan of Martin Short’s “Nathan Thurm” character from his days on SNL.
> B. The OP just discovered Monty Python’s “Argument Clinic Sketch” and is pretending he’s John Cleese.
actually i heard someone ask the question on a separate website
i dont know why you would say what you did ☹
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### Author:  [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/55 "2014-02-21T01:05:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> seems to me like you’re trying to back out of answering what are the conditions, definition, whatever, for “freedom”. maybe you’re not but if it is really such a simple matter you could just say how “freedom” is determined so that you can apply the socratic method to the term.
Seems to me I’ve done my due diligence in answering your question and if you don’t like it you can go do something I can’t say on the message board.
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/56 "2014-02-21T02:59:19Z")
Oh, I’m sorry, this is _abuse!_ You want thread 12A, just along the corridor.
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/57 "2014-02-21T06:09:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> i mean by abusing the method and basically wearing someone down until the point they give up from frustration. not advocating it though.
> [@simster](#):
>
> Kinda like you’re doing here and in you’re other threads.
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> That is not “abusing” the Socratic method, it is trolling.
> [@What exactly is required for a PHd in (Christian) Theology](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exactly-is-required-for-a-phd-in-christian-theology/681784/108):
>
> or maybe you’re not bright enough to notice that i’m just f\_ucking with people. like not all the time but yeah, i do it a lot. BUT it seems as if most everyone else here does too.
Just, wow. You might have trouble on message boards and in real life… Come to think of it, I hope you _are_ “just f\_ucking with people” here, because if you think this is how to treat people, how to have a ‘debate’ or a conversation, you may have a problem.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/58 "2014-02-21T06:12:21Z")
> [@digs](#):
>
> Just, wow. You might have trouble on message boards and in real life… Come to think of it, I hope you _are_ “just f\_ucking with people” here, because if you think this is how to treat people, how to have a ‘debate’ or a conversation, you may have a problem.
it would seem as if you put a lot of effort into cobbling those quotes together. did you find it to be a satisfactory experience?
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/59 "2014-02-21T06:18:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> it would seem as if you put a lot of effort into cobbling those quotes together. did you find it to be a satisfactory experience?
Yeah, I’m high-fiving my poodl… _hey, wait,_ did you just Socratic Method me?
Well, you win.
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-socratic-method-win-any-argument/681809/60 "2014-02-21T06:19:02Z")
> [@digs](#):
>
> Yeah, I’m high-fiving my poodl… _hey, wait,_ did you just Socratic Method me?
>
> Well, you win.
actually dude the quotes made for a most excellent burn 😉
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