# Can the Supreme Court be overturned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341 "2004-05-09T21:24:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/1 "2004-05-09T21:24:50Z")
My answer would be that yes, the people who live in the United States could overrule the Supreme Court, but, could they, and how? Here’s a hypothetical case. After hearing a plea sponsored by whoever, the Court rules that there will be a curfew for teenagers, that begins at midnight, and ends at six AM, country wide, all fifty states, effective June first. As the uproar ensues, what is the next step in the process to overturn the ruling, or, is any ruling truly supreme until the court itself decides to overrule it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/2 "2004-05-09T21:37:28Z")
With _Marbury v. Madison_, the Supreme Court established themselves as the final, ultimate word. Their decisions can be reversed by subsequent courts. There is genuine concern that _Roe v. Wade_, a Supreme Court decision from the 70s, could be overturned if a majority of justices are extreme right wingers (i.e. if the next two are Bush appointees). ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/3 "2004-05-09T21:38:42Z")
There’s no higher court to overturn a Supreme Court ruling. I think it’d be perfectly possible, however, for the S.C. to make a decision in a case and for a subsequent law (or constitutional amendment) to be passed that effectively invalidates their decision but that’s not the same as overturning their original ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/4 "2004-05-09T21:40:10Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > With _Marbury v. Madison_, the Supreme Court established themselves as the final, ultimate word. Their decisions can be reversed by subsequent courts. There is genuine concern that _Roe v. Wade_, a Supreme Court decision from the 70s, could be overturned if a majority of justices are extreme right wingers (i.e. if the next two are Bush appointees). Since I’m not a lawyer, I assume that what you mean here is that a later Supreme Court decision can overturn an earlier S.C. decision? ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/5 "2004-05-09T21:41:42Z")
The proper, legal way to overturn a Supreme Court ruling is to pass an amendment to the Constitution. An amendment can be passed either by 2/3 of each house of congress supporting, then having it ratified by 3/4 of the states(this is the method by which all current amendments have been passed) or by having 2/3 of the states call for a national convention, with amendments again ratified by 3/4 of the states. The other way is if executive branch decides not to enforce the courts rulings - hey, it worked for Andrew Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/6 "2004-05-09T21:44:51Z")
I can’t manage to think up ANY case that would make it even possible for the Supremes to make a ruling that would have the results you mention, so I’m going to use a slightly different example. (Anyone who can figure out how the Supremes would be able to do what **ltfire** suggested is more than welcome to help out.) Let’s say that a case is presented to the court challenging… I don’t know, the law against owning ferrets in California. And let’s say that the justices are so swayed by the fuzzy, cuddly cuteness of the ferret in question that they declare that ferrets are people and hence deserve all the constitutional rights previously limited only to humans. If the American people did not want to give constitutional rights to weasels, no matter how adorable they may be, the recourse in this case would be to amend the Constitution, adding an amendment stating that when we say people, we only mean humans. Procedures for amending [the Constitution](http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html) are detailed in Article V: > [@](#): > > The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. On preview: D’oh! **RandomLetters** is faster! But I have examples and quotes, so I’m posting anyway. Nyah. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/7 "2004-05-09T21:46:51Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > … After hearing a plea sponsored by whoever, the Court rules that there will be a curfew for teenagers, that begins at midnight, and ends at six AM, country wide, all fifty states, effective June first. As the uproar ensues, what is the next step in the process to overturn the ruling, or, is any ruling truly supreme until the court itself decides to overrule it. You will have to be a little more specific about the “… plea sponsored by whoever …” What hypothetical law is being described? Your hypothetical reads to me as if someone asked the Court to make a ruling about having a curfew and the Court responded by imposing one. Is that what you meant to say? ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/8 "2004-05-09T21:54:05Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Since I’m not a lawyer, I assume that what you mean here is that a later Supreme Court decision can overturn an earlier S.C. decision? Yes this is true. For example, in 1892, during the case of _Plessy v. Ferguson_ the Sumpreme Court ruled that “Separate but Equal” laws did not violate the Constitution. In 1954, with the _Brown v. Board of Education_ case, the Supreme Court overturned itself, finding “Separate but Equal” laws to be unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/9 "2004-05-09T21:57:11Z")
Yes, the Court is free to overturn its own previous decisions. One recent high-profile [example](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-102), from _Lawrence v Texas_: > [@](#): > > Bowers was not correct when it was decided, and it is not correct today. It ought not to remain binding precedent. Bowers v. Hardwick should be and now is overruled. The Court is loath to overturn its own precedent under the principle of _stare decisis_, which means that once an issue is decided it should remain decided unless there’s a really good reason to change it. The Court recognizes the importance for the people to know what the law is and not be left to uncertainty that what is good law today may not be tomorrow. Now, one way in which SCOTUS can be _de facto_ “overturned” is by the manner in which lower courts implement its decisions. Returning to the example of Lawrence, a Kansas case involving sentencing discrepancies applied to male-male sexual assault versus male-female sexual assault before the Court at the same time was returned to a lower court for further consideration in light of the Lawence decision. It was pretty much taken for granted that the lower court would find the Kansas statute unconstitutional per the Court’s instruction but the Kansas court upheld it instead. In another case an appeals court distinguished between a voter-approved anti-gay initiative passed at the city level and one passed at the state level. SCOTUS struck down the statewide initiative and sent the city case back for reconsideration. The city initiative was upheld. Lower courts can get away with this because of the volume of cases that are appealed to it is so much greater than the number of cases it can hear. SCOTUS can certainly step in again and review the lower court ruling, but in most such cases of which I’m aware it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/10 "2004-05-09T23:09:26Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > You will have to be a little more specific about the “… plea sponsored by whoever …” What hypothetical law is being described? Your hypothetical reads to me as if someone asked the Court to make a ruling about having a curfew and the Court responded by imposing one. Is that what you meant to say? Hypothetical, DAVE. Fill in your own blanks so it makes sense to you…like ELFBABE did with the ferrets. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/11 "2004-05-09T23:26:18Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > After hearing a plea sponsored by whoever, the Court rules that there will be a curfew for teenagers, that begins at midnight, and ends at six AM, country wide, all fifty states, effective June first. There’s a problem with your hypothetical in that it violates the “case or controversy” requirement of Article III, Section2 of the U.S. Constitution. All federal courts, including the Supreme Court, must be faced with a present case or controversy before they may rule. It’s pretty rare that the Supreme Court rules that this or that thing SHALL be done. Rather, it will rule that a law or government practice is either constitutional or unconstitutional and let the government continue to operate without falling into unconstutional acts. The only way I can see that the Supreme Court could make a ruling like what you suggest is if Congress passed a curfew law, and the Court upheld it as Constitutional. In that case, the way to change it would be to have Congress change the law. If the Supreme Court made a ruling declaring something as unconstitutional, and there were widespread public objection, the Congress and the States could pass a Constitutional Amendment. For instance, this happened in 1916 when, after Supreme Court decisions limiting the income tax were handed, the Sixteenth Amendment was adopted expresly authorizing taxation based on income. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/12 "2004-05-09T23:28:43Z")
The only real way to overturn the Supreme Court is amending the Constitution. However, the Constitution would allow Congress to increase the number of SCOTUS judges to a number greater than the current 9. This idea has been called “packing the court”. Thus, if hypothetically the SCOTUS was making a number of left wing decisions at a time when Congress was dominated by conservatives, and the president was also a conservative, they could increase the size of the SCOTUS, and then the president appoint, and the Senate approve, new judges that would hopefully make right wing decisions. The problem with this idea is that newly appointed judges, once they get that SCOTUS seat for life, don’t always rule as was hoped for. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/13 "2004-05-09T23:39:19Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > With _Marbury v. Madison_, the Supreme Court established themselves as the final, ultimate word. Their decisions can be reversed by subsequent courts. There is genuine concern that _Roe v. Wade_, a Supreme Court decision from the 70s, could be overturned if a majority of justices are extreme right wingers (i.e. if the next two are Bush appointees). Be careful how you phrase that. That should be “a majority of justices are extreme right wing Republicans”. If you read the Roe v. Wade decision, basically the court ruled on conservative grounds. Namely, the right to privacy from government interference. The Libertarian Party is quite right wing, but would agree with the logic of Roe v. Wade. Libertarians also strongly oppose some of the other things right wing Republicans like. Such as legalizing drugs, and keeping prayer out of schools. Libertarians exalt the individual, while Republicans exalt the state. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/14 "2004-05-09T23:39:30Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > There is genuine concern that _Roe v. Wade_, a Supreme Court decision from the 70s, could be overturned if a majority of justices are extreme right wingers (i.e. if the next two are Bush appointees). Given that the American people are [already very divided](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html) on this issue — 57% of Americans are opposed to abortion when it is solely to end an unwanted pregnancy, and 42% want abortions made harder to obtain — it is not a “extreme right-wing” position. It is a mainstream position. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/15 "2004-05-09T23:45:55Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > Can the Supreme Court be overturned? If they could, they would be called something along the lines of “The Pert’near Supreme Court”. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/16 "2004-05-09T23:55:56Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Given that the American people are [already very divided](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html) on this issue — 57% of Americans are opposed to abortion when it is solely to end an unwanted pregnancy, and 42% want abortions made harder to obtain — it is not a “extreme right-wing” position. It is a mainstream position. Read that URL more closely: “These views, however, do not constitute a call for broad anti-abortion activism. Forty-one percent say the government and the courts should not alter the current availability of abortions, and an additional 15 percent say they should be easier to get; that leaves the 42 percent, cited above, who want abortions made harder to obtain.” What you wrote above is there personal preference, rather than what they want to make law of the land. 57% want abortion laws either kept the same as now, or made even more easy to get. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/17 "2004-05-10T00:03:09Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > There’s a problem with your hypothetical in that it violates the “case or controversy” requirement of Article III, Section2 of the U.S. Constitution. All federal courts, including the Supreme Court, must be faced with a present case or controversy before they may rule. > > It’s pretty rare that the Supreme Court rules that this or that thing SHALL be done. Rather, it will rule that a law or government practice is either constitutional or unconstitutional and let the government continue to operate without falling into unconstutional acts. > The only way I can see that the Supreme Court could make a ruling like what you suggest is if Congress passed a curfew law, and the Court upheld it as Constitutional. In that case, the way to change it would be to have Congress change the law. > > If the Supreme Court made a ruling declaring something as unconstitutional, and there were widespread public objection, the Congress and the States could pass a Constitutional Amendment. For instance, this happened in 1916 when, after Supreme Court decisions limiting the income tax were handed, the Sixteenth Amendment was adopted expresly authorizing taxation based on income. JEEZUS! I’m banging my head on the computer…FORGET my hypothetical. I’m sorry some of you are interpreting a HYPOTHETICAL question as a factual thing. I made it up out of the clear blue sky. The HYPOTHETICAL is not part of the factual question, which is " Can the Supreme Court be overturned?" If you have to have an example, use the FERRET referred to in another post. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/18 "2004-05-10T00:03:34Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Given that the American people are [already very divided](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html) on this issue — 57% of Americans are opposed to abortion when it is solely to end an unwanted pregnancy, and 42% want abortions made harder to obtain — it is not a “extreme right-wing” position. It is a mainstream position. From your cite: > [@](#): > > **Generally, 57 percent in this ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll say abortion should be legal in all or most cases** , and **54 percent favor the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1973 ruling that made it so**. While 42 percent want the government and the courts to make abortions harder to get, **more either support the status quo, or favor fewer restrictions.** You can spin it however you want, but your own cite says that the majority of Americans wish abortion to remain legal. A majority may personally disapprove of the practice, but that doesn’t mean a majority wishes to imprison those who choose to get abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/19 "2004-05-10T00:04:46Z")
What I wrote stands. A position that is held by 42% of the electorate is not an “extreme right-wing” position. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341/20 "2004-05-10T00:11:06Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > A majority may personally disapprove of the practice, but that doesn’t mean a majority wishes to imprison those who choose to get abortions. **No one** has talked about “imprisoning” those who choose to get abortions — not in that poll, and not in this thread, so crank it down a notch, OK? State laws outlawing abortions have always been directed against abortion providers, not those who seek abortions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-supreme-court-be-overturned/244341.md?page=2)