# Can they do anything for this girl? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 18, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928 "2003-02-18T18:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/21 "2003-02-20T06:07:58Z")
No, AB isn’t a universal donor for plasma. Everyone can donate plasma, they remove the red blood cells so the blood type antigens are removed. Anyone can get plasma from anyone else. The reason they ask AB people (I am AB) to donate plasma is that AB is a pretty rare blood type, and AB blood can only be given to other ABs. But since ABs can get blood from Os, As, or Bs there isn’t any demand for whole AB blood. If you donate whole AB blood it will probably sit on the shelf until its expiration date. So if you are AB, they’ll ask you to donate plasma instead. Anyone can donate plasma, it’s just that other types have more use for the whole blood. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/22 "2003-02-20T07:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > What about an Abiocor? For the heart, at least. The biggest problem is that she would still need lungs, and you have to transplant the whole system. The indications for an ABioCor are fairly strict (since it’s still really experimental), and you probably have to have really good lungs before they’d even consider it. Unfortunately, I doubt they can do much for this girl. I don’t think a heart-lung transplant requires very close HLA typing (nothing like a kidney or bone marrow, certainly, but maybe not as permissive as a liver), but the chances of an adequate set of organs coming along in time for her to get them are slim to none. The presence of the foreign system probably also makes her more likely to reject the next set, even if they are matched. (Don’t quote me on that; it’s late and I’m speculating.) I don’t understand how this happened. Mistakes are made in hospitals all the time, but one of this magnitude? Did they ever sort out whether or not the heart was labeled correctly? I’d say that the damages Duke will pay out will pale in comparison to the hit they’ll take PR-wise. And let me take this opportunity for a public service announcement: sign your donor card, and discuss your decision with your family. Thank you. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/23 "2003-02-20T10:50:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irishgirl \* > \*\*\*it’s worth remembering that although many people see transplants as lifesaving, they will still not give a normal lifespan to the recipient. in many cases only an extra 5 or 10 years. > > for many recipients of organ transplants those years will be spent in ill-health and with a relatively poor quality of life. > > just so that everybody realises that we aren’t talking about miracle cures, more like a treatment with fairly horrendous side effects in order to give some extra time.\*\*\* I’m curious where you got this information. This might have been true early on, and I once believed it myself, but then I started running into organ recipients. Sure, they have to take various drugs and some of the have side effects, but when I’ve asked nobody seems to have found the regimin intolerable and while the side effects are annoying they seem to be something folks deal with. And getting an extra 5-10 years IS lifesaving. Heck, some cancer patients undergo chemo and/or radiation just to have a few more _months_ ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/24 "2003-02-20T11:14:00Z")
Donor found. Surgery this morning at 8. Here’s hoping she comes through ok. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/25 "2003-02-20T12:16:05Z")
broomstick, blumoon, i wasn’t talking about ALL transplants. i did say “many”. my mother works with people in CHF, many of whom have had transplants. often these guys are still unable to walk up a flight of stairs without shortness of breath, and their prognosis isn’t really that fantastic. like you say though broomstick, 5 years is 5 years. obviously the picture is better for renal transplants and transplants from living donors. it’s worse for transplants for people with hep C and CF. when they work, fantastic, great, wonderful. when they don’t, it’s not so good, and sadly the technology still isn’t there to ensure that rejection can be staved off indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/26 "2003-02-20T15:53:21Z")
Just heard the heart transplant was a success and it is beating on its own. Now what about the lungs? Why didn’t they take the lungs from the same person who gave the compatible heart? I am very excited. I know she isn’t out of the woods yet, but maybe there is hope after all. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/27 "2003-02-20T16:41:52Z")
Perhaps the requirements for heart and lung transplants are different. The match was for the heart, but not the lungs. There is also the possibility that while the heart may have been in good condition, the lungs weren’t so great. ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/28 "2003-02-20T16:57:49Z")
I got the impression from the [current CNN article](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/20/transplant.error/index.html), that today’s was another heart/lung transplant. Is it stated differently elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/29 "2003-02-20T16:58:18Z")
According to [http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/20/transplant.error/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/20/transplant.error/index.html)]CNN she received a set of lungs as well: > [@](#): > > The organs for Thursday’s operation had been donated in Jesica’s name, the spokeswoman said, although it was not clear exactly how they became available. > > Doctors told the family the heart and lungs are “an incredibly good match,” McCormick said. Good news indeed. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/30 "2003-02-20T17:20:38Z")
The family went public and pushed for news coverage in the hopes of getting a designated donor, which apparently worked. Hears that the medical group was not happy about the family going so public, but backed off when Elizabeth Dole backed up the family’s lawyer. [story](http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/02/20/3e54e3c61c744) ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/31 "2003-02-20T20:10:08Z")
I can only imagine that in order to have 2 sets of organs transplanted into this girl that someone else out there is missing out now? And how in the world did they find a spare set of organs so quickly when it takes months/years for everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/32 "2003-02-20T20:20:55Z")
Yes, I was wrong. I thought they gave her just the heart, but they gave her lungs too. **Bongmaster** yes, someone else out there is missing out, but the hospital is the one that botched up the first transplant and I don’t think she should have been the one to suffer those consequences. They did what they should have done and that is move her back to the top of the list and made her a top priority (just my opionion). I just hope that everything takes on this one and that she will be okay. And let’s not forget that some other family is mourning the death of one of their loved ones in order to have made this possible. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/33 "2003-02-21T17:52:34Z")
More trouble- she now has swelling and bleeding on the brain. ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/34 "2003-02-21T19:23:19Z")
According to CNN, she now has [irreversible brain damage](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/21/transplant.error/index.html). FWIW, the new heart & lungs are working well. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/35 "2003-02-21T20:29:12Z")
Am I the only one here who is troubled by the second transplant? It seems her chances are so low of coming through this that the second set of organs should have gone to someone else on the list. Certainly a tragedy all the way around. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/36 "2003-02-21T20:37:20Z")
The criteria to be moved to the top of the list is (I paraphrase): Imminent death if organs not forthcoming toot sweet. Unfortunately, that means organs are put into people who _should_ have gotten them days/weeks/months earlier, when their bodies were stronger and more able to handle the rigors of a transplant. But, with a critical shortage of donated organs, can you propose some other criteria on which to dole out organs? One that is not fraught with poorly drawn and subjective lines? Now, when Mickey Mantle moved to the top of the liver list 5-6 years ago … that was a scandal! ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/37 "2003-02-21T21:05:45Z")
I have read the news and it doesn’t sound good at all for her. It’s very heartbreaking. If she doesn’t make it, what are the chances of being able to redonate the organs? Or is that not possible? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/38 "2003-02-21T21:15:14Z")
I’m not saying that there is a better way, just that at some point imminent death becomes so near that the super low chance of survival and recovery should weigh against the transplant when there are so many others in need. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/39 "2003-02-21T21:22:58Z")
I just got my new license in the mail last week. I forgot, but just now I checked, yep, right there. On the back. Organ Donor = Yes. I hope more people will. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928/40 "2003-02-21T22:11:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > Am I the only one here who is troubled by the second transplant? It seems her chances are so low of coming through this that the second set of organs should have gone to someone else on the list. Certainly a tragedy all the way around. It’s a sticky ethical question, isn’t it? People who have a transplant that hums along merrily for years, then is suddenly (or gradually) rejected are put back on the lists - I suppose you could argue they’ve had their life extension so they shouldn’t qualify for seconds when others haven’t had firsts yet. Don’t think I’m comfortable with that position, either. Honestly, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of someone getting two transplants in rapid succession. It’s rare - after all, you have to win the Organ Lottery twice in a row - but I believe the rule is that once you’ve been transplanted they’ll do anything humanly possible to keep you going. Including another transplant. Not to mention the added pressure the hospital is under, having already screwed up in a major, major way once. [Disclaimer UNCONFIRMED] I heard today on the radio that the mistake was actually discovered _before_ the new organs were put in - but _after_ the old ones had been taken out. In other words, at a point of no return.[/Disclaimer] Should they have refused to insert the mis-matched organs then? But by then her own were unretrievable, she would have died. Is it better that they put in the mis-matched organs, KNOWING there would be dire problems, in hopes that she would live long enough for a second chance? Hmm… yes, I think that was the right course. But a very hard and very ethically messy situation all around. As long as there is more need than organs we will continue to have messy, uncomfortable, and ethically difficult situations. Given the criteria for organ donation, even if we moved to “presumptive consent” there might not be enough to go around. It’s an irony that, despite the shrill cries of the media and the concern of many, life is becoming physically safer and fewer young, healthy people are dying in accidents that leave their organs intact enough for donation. Not that I would suggest promoting dangerous and unsave activities to obtain more organs, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-they-do-anything-for-this-girl/155928.md?page=3)