# Can this be the work of a hawk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779 "2013-09-13T17:13:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/21 "2013-09-15T13:38:09Z")
Microscopic analysis would reveal cut marks on the bones. Is it worth getting this rabbit examined? If I were in the OP’s shoes I think that’s what I would recommend. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/22 "2013-09-15T14:39:24Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > bike crowd is calling her a dumbass in the comments posted underneath the local newspaper’s online story. Not a wise decision on their part. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/23 "2013-09-16T00:56:30Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > She had a stop sign, but he didn’t. He flew 60 feet and fractured three vertebrae, and is in pretty bad shape. She simply didn’t see his headlight, and the bike crowd is calling her a dumbass in the comments posted underneath the local newspaper’s online story. Fair enough I should think, don’t you? I’m curious if she feels she is at fault in the accident? ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/24 "2013-09-16T01:24:59Z")
In my 30 years of keeping cats out in the country and letting them live their preferred outdoor existence I have never ever seen them kill a rodent and just eat the head. They eat it all except for some thumbnail size organ they always leave in the middle of a bloody smear. And they don’t like rabbit ears, but they eat fur bones feet head teeth everything, then come in and beg a stinking 50 cent can of cat food for the gravy. As for red tails killing rabbits, they prefer to start dinner on the ground by ripping open the critter and eating its guts. Red shoulder hawks like to abscond with their prey. The only thing I ever saw an owl eat was a hornworm caterpillar. I’ve slung various rodents 50-60 feet with a good arc mowing fields with a shredder, maybe a crew was mowing the r.o.w. in your area and launched one? Interestingly, in Texas you can castle doctrine a human you catch messing around with your car at night, but it’s a felony offense to shoot a hawk… ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/25 "2013-09-16T01:34:06Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > They eat it all except for some thumbnail size organ they always leave in the middle of a bloody smear. My cats are indoors only, but I’ve heard more than once that for some reason, cats don’t like mouse livers, and won’t eat them unless they’re starving. 😕 I did work a while back with a woman who said her dog would catch rabbits and just eat the heads, but that doesn’t look animal-eaten. It looks cut. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/26 "2013-09-16T02:20:50Z")
I have seen my share of hawks and rabbits and can personally attest to two things: - Hawks can snatch live rabbits and fly off, not necessarily easily or gracefully. - Hawks do sometimes eat their prey on the ground. I have also witnessed a hawk on the ground that, when interrupted by some dogs, tried to take off with its prize, only to drop it a short ways away. Whether it dropped it deliberately or not is questionable; regardless, it dropped a partially eviscerated rabbit and took off flying. Sometimes hawks do leave unfinished meals behind. So, it _could_ have be a hawk, but most likely it was some human messing with your relative. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/27 "2013-09-16T02:39:34Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Are you off your meds or something? **Moderator Note** **Ca3799** , insults aren’t permitted in General Questions. No warning issued, but dial it back. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/28 "2013-09-16T06:24:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Fair enough I should think, don’t you? I’m curious if she feels she is at fault in the accident? That will be for the police and the civil courts to decide, not you or a bunch of semi-literate rural bikers. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/29 "2013-09-16T07:44:12Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > That will be for the police and the civil courts to decide, not you or a bunch of semi-literate rural bikers. That’s not what I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/30 "2013-09-16T09:28:44Z")
Point taken. Neither she nor I know. I’m still attempting to determine the legal definition of ‘fault.’ They may be mitigating factors. He does have a history of speeding violations. However, it is not “fair enough” to publicly accuse a person of gross negligence on the basis of a 200-word newspaper article that simply indicated an accident had occurred and that driver visibility played a role. If you were to slip on a banana peel and fall into the path of an oncoming Metro bus, you clearly precipitated the event by not seeing the banana peel. I’m sure you would not take kindly to people questioning your general intelligence because of your momentary negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/31 "2013-09-16T18:17:43Z")
If I may, her \*feeling \*of whether or not she is at-fault does not depend on the legal definition of fault or whether a jury would find her guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/32 "2013-09-16T18:31:51Z")
I vote for “Owl”. I’m in the same general area (I think, assuming you eat at El Charos ) and have had serious increase of activity this summer. Damn things killed dozens of chickens, all with heads off and bodies left behind. Bastard Owls! ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/33 "2013-09-16T21:03:45Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > If I may, her \*feeling \*of whether or not she is at-fault does not depend on the legal definition of fault or whether a jury would find her guilty. Again, point taken. I simply don’t know the answer to that question at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/34 "2013-09-16T21:20:54Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Nonsense. It is uncommon for an owl to even \*attempt \*to swallow the femur of an adult rabbit. [Those large bones are stripped of flesh and left behind.](http://bryanhockett.com/uploads/Hockett_1995.pdf) Color me skeptical about your skepticism. I’ve watched, over webcam, a barn owl swallowing \* an entire \* rabbit. [And you can too.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEeN_OutM4)[Even their babies eat entire rabbits.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds1P2Kd7fkI) So a couple of points. That wasn’t just the femur, it was the entire darned rabbit, possibly minus the head. And this was in an owl box, so the owl’s mate had to airlift in the rabbit, which certainly implies that birds of prey don’t actually have much trouble carrying rabbits. Additionally, I have pictures of a red tailed hawk sitting in a tree and devouring a woodchuck, easily identifiable by its claws. It might have been a young woodchuck, but nonetheless, it was a roughly-rabbit-sized mammal carried into a tree by a hawk. So I think you underestimate both the digestive capabilities and air-lifting capability of birds of prey. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/35 "2013-09-16T21:39:26Z")
If I’m a motorcyclist, a fellow biker gets screwed up and I want to strike fear in someone, its going to be much more brutal and chilling than leaving a headless bunny on someone’s roof. This sounds not like pissed off bikers but a Vespa-riding Book of the Month Club. My guess is owl, cat, hawk, whatever, just not anyone in leathers. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/36 "2013-09-16T21:46:37Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > When feeding on prey as large as rabbits, even eagles commonly fed on the ground. The inability of most hawks to even attempt to lift a rabbit guarantees that they will be feeding on the ground. [And…a red-tail flying off with a rabbit after being disturbed.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5X8ZrHYKss) It’s clearly burdened, but it’s not just flying a few feet – it’s certainly capable of flying that rabbit into a tree. Dunno if the situation would change if the rabbit was still twitching. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/37 "2013-09-16T21:54:04Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > If I’m a motorcyclist, a fellow biker gets screwed up and I want to strike fear in someone, its going to be much more brutal and chilling than leaving a headless bunny on someone’s roof. This sounds not like pissed off bikers but a Vespa-riding Book of the Month Club. Sorry, I wasn’t being entirely clear. ‘Biker’ in this case doesn’t mean ‘biker’ in the SOA sense; it just means somebody who rides a bike. That’s why I used the term ‘bike crowd’ in my fourth post. The two people who called her a “cager” and said that her inability to see the oncoming motorcyclist was just a “lame excuse” were pretty much ignored by the other posters, or in a couple of cases were subject to derision themselves. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/38 "2013-09-16T22:31:44Z")
Gotcha. I think as mentioned your answer will be in the size of talon/claw marks in the carcass. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/39 "2013-09-17T00:12:36Z")
Some 30 years ago a biologist friend of mine and I were birding at Laguna Atascosa and watched an osprey catch and fly off with a red drum as big as the bird itself. It had to have weighed 5-10 pounds and we just looked at each other, one of those moments you couldn’t say anything. Never seen anything like it since, and I see osprey all the time at the lake near my house, not much bigger if at all than a redtail. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779/40 "2013-09-17T00:38:38Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Point taken. Neither she nor I know. I’m still attempting to determine the legal definition of ‘fault.’ They may be mitigating factors. He does have a history of speeding violations. However, it is not “fair enough” to publicly accuse a person of gross negligence on the basis of a 200-word newspaper article that simply indicated an accident had occurred and that driver visibility played a role. If you were to slip on a banana peel and fall into the path of an oncoming Metro bus, you clearly precipitated the event by not seeing the banana peel. I’m sure you would not take kindly to people questioning your general intelligence because of your momentary negligence. On reflection, this isn’t the thread for discussing the accident itself, and I’m sorry for the hijack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-be-the-work-of-a-hawk/668779.md?page=3)