# Can this woman really recognize color by touch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 11, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729 "2005-10-11T09:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/21 "2005-10-12T13:59:58Z")
> [@MsMitey](#): > > I thought of this too, at first. But, IIRC, synaesthetes have a wire crossed in the brain such that when their eyes see color, their brain processes it as a touch (or smell, or sound). I believe their eyes still need to function properly in order to get a texture out of a color. > > My money’s on the cold reading. That’s a theory. As it goes, during childhood your brain goes through a tremendous amount of neural pruning, and synaesthesia is the result of this not happening effectively, leaving “leftover” connections. There is someone trumping the theory that we are all synaesthates as children (completely unfounded) Synaesthesia would not account for this womans ability. Phonemic/Chromatic synaesthates bi-associate visual percepts with colors, and if the synaesthetic color were identical to the real color _you wouldn’t be synaesthetic_. Other types, like hers supposedly (tactile/chromatic?) become increasingly rare. It is, however, entirely possible that you associate colors with aspects of touch such as texture, shape etc. (there was a pop psych book abou a man who tasted shapes). Even in a best case scenario, there would be now way for her to distinguish between two identical shape/texture etc… objects each with a different color. (btw, synaesthesia is a real phenomenon. See Robertson (2003) for a cog/neurosci overview. [link](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=robertson+2003+synaesthesia+binding+spatial+attention+perceptual+awareness&btnG=Search)) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/22 "2005-10-12T14:32:05Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > Synaesthesia would not account for this womans ability. Phonemic/Chromatic synaesthates bi-associate visual percepts with colors, and if the synaesthetic color were identical to the real color _you wouldn’t be synaesthetic_. I never suggested that it was. I just suggest that maybe she honestly does see colours when she touches objects. The colours she sees might not be the same colours you would see.I submit this as a possibility, an alternative to the suggestion that she is deliberately cheating. I do not claim that her colour vision is actually right. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/23 "2005-10-12T14:38:28Z")
To clarify, **Peter** ’s is an explanation for why the woman _thinks_ she has the ability claimed in the title. She almost certainly hasn’t, a could be evidenced by dyeing identical material 10 different colours and asking her to pick out the red one a few times in a row. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/24 "2005-10-12T14:44:01Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > I remember hearing about a Russian girl in, I think, the 1970s, who could do this. Apparently, the story went that she had the cones that sense colour in your eyes, in her fingertips, albeit much more sparsely populated. So she couldn’t actually _see_ with her fingers, but there was just enough sensitivity there that the cones in them reported back to the brain via the nervous system. > > Sounds like bull to me, but who knows? That was my first thought - that I had long ago heard about a young Russian girl who had done the same thing under test conditions. I didn’t recall any “explanation”. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/25 "2005-10-12T14:45:31Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > IIRC, Helen Keller’s favorite color was corduroy. Bwaahhh!! Or maybe tweed. I smell con artist. But the other disease process (syn-something) sounds fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/26 "2005-10-12T15:15:40Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Synaesthesia can even occur when one of the senses no longer functions properly, e.g., a person who can see colours when words are spoken can still see the colours if he becomes blind in later life. > > make of that what you will. That would mean she could touch the fabric and see a color in her mind. That’s not the same as knowing what specific color the fabric is just by touching it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/27 "2005-10-12T15:37:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That would mean she could touch the fabric and see a color in her mind. That’s not the same as knowing what specific color the fabric is just by touching it. Yes, that’s _exactly_ the point I made. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/28 "2005-10-12T15:54:07Z")
Oh man, i’m glad it’s early in the morning…nobody had the chance to catch my blunder (which isn’t a very pretty thing around here :). I didn’t mean that they wouldn’t be synaesthetic, but that they wouldn’t know they were synaesthetic, and that wouldn’t apply for someone who did not have the properly functioning sense, e.g., vision. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/29 "2005-10-12T15:55:34Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > Yes, that’s _exactly_ the point I made. But if she’s identifying the color _correctly_, synesthesia is not what’s happening here (unless there is some amazing string of coincidences going on as well). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/30 "2005-10-12T16:15:06Z")
When did I ever suggest that she IS identifying the colour correctly? In fact I’ve said several times that the colour she sees is not the same colour you would see. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/31 "2005-10-12T21:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > When did I ever suggest that she IS identifying the colour correctly? In fact I’ve said several times that the colour she sees is not the same colour you would see. That could be true… But it doesn’t explain anything. She could also be dyslexic or diabetic or allergic to wheat, and those would all have the same relevance to the question at hand. This woman can go on a TV show wearing a blindfold, touch a piece of cloth, and say what color it is. We’re wondering how she does this. One explanation might be that different common fabric dyes somehow feel different. Another explanation might be that she’s peeking through her blindfold. Cold-reading her audience could be yet another explanation. But synthaesia wouldn’t explain anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/32 "2005-10-12T22:00:53Z")
According to [this article](http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2005/10/06/489431.html) she has 1.5% vision in one eye. Do with that information what you will. Also, the picture shows that they were handing her the clothing, not having her identify what people on the show were wearing. Pretty neat trick. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/33 "2005-10-12T22:11:52Z")
I read something a few years ago that was written by a debunker (maybe Randi, but I don’t remember) who said it was really hard to completely cut off the vision of someone who knows certain tricks to see around blindfolds. He said you just about have to seal their head in a box to be sure. Knowing that, knowing that this has been a common-enough trick in the past that people have had to debunk it, and knowing that a lot of nominally blind people can still see colors ( **Ghanima’s** link says she’s not completely blind), I don’t have much doubt that she’s just cheating. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/34 "2005-10-12T22:13:56Z")
Ok, I’m going to drop in an anecdote. Don’t hit! I once dated a man who was born blind and had had his eyes removed at age 2. One night I drove, (alone) from my house to his hotel. No one else was there when I arrived. I was wearing a red dress. He ran his hand down my back and said “Red?” I asked why he thought that, and he said that red felt warmer than other colors. Ok, he did ask, and had he been wrong, I wouldn’t remember the incident, but he wasn’t wrong. He had no way of finding out in advance. So, Lucky guess? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/35 "2005-10-12T22:40:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That could be true… But it doesn’t explain anything. She could also be dyslexic or diabetic or allergic to wheat, and those would all have the same relevance to the question at hand. No it would not. Jeez, what’s so hard to understand about this? This concept is very very simple. **Princhester** claimed 2 possibilities. 1. She has some genuine psychic power 2. She is cheating. I suggested a third possibility 1. She honestly \*\* but wrongly \*\* believes she sees colours when she touches objects. Synthaesia would be an explaination for that. If she has it, then she really does see colours when she touches objects. Not the same colours you see though, as I have said several times already. Diabetes or wheat allergy would NOT lead her to see colours when she touches objects. Sheee, maybe I have Synthaesia cause I’m starting to see red. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/36 "2005-10-13T00:10:22Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > 1. She honestly \*\* but wrongly \*\* believes she sees colours when she touches objects. Which would make the story in the linked article pretty short and pointless, wouldn’t it? “Here’s a jacket. What color do you think it is?” “I think it’s… blue!” “Actually it’s red.” In which case there would be nothing to report. The only possible reason this story gets any ink is if she’s **accurately** announcing the colors. Of course, maybe there is something to this after all, considering how the nerves in my eyes are somehow smelling a lot of bullshit… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/37 "2005-10-13T00:17:36Z")
As I understand it, all **Peter** is doping is to offer an explanation of how someone who was blind could quite innocently claim to ‘feel’ colours; it may be that this doesn’t match the phenomenon being described in the five pithy paragraphs in the linked article, but that’s not really the point; the point is that not everyone who says ‘I can feel colours’ is either mistaken, lying or magic; True, they’re not sensing anything that relates meaningfully to colour in the sighted world, but they can be ‘feeling colour’ without being deliberately dishonest, or supernaturally endowed. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/38 "2005-10-13T00:23:46Z")
Can she somehow detect colours by touch? We don’t know, and we won’t know until she has demonstrated this gift, or tried to, under controlled conditions which eliminate other possible explanations. Can magicians and sly tricksters like myself arrange to be able to ‘see’ even while apparently securely blindfolded? Yep. We’ve been doing it for over a century at least. And we’re getting better at it all the time! Is this woman using a trick of some kind, of the type that I and other magicians would use? Unlikely, but not impossioble. Again, we must wait for a well-arranged demonstration under conditions which rule out fraud and trickery. Have claims like this been made before? Yep. Dozens of times. Have any of them been shown to be genuine? No. Not once. Never ever. They either avoid a test conditions demonstration, or they try and fail. Would some sort of synaethesia account for her ability as claimed? No. As others have explained through the fog of replies, this might mean that for her tactile sensations trigger perceptions akin to our normal perception of colour, but not that she would accurately identify the colours of objects as normal-sighted people see them. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/39 "2005-10-13T01:15:06Z")
Thank you Mangetout. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729/40 "2005-10-13T01:29:20Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > According to [this article](http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2005/10/06/489431.html) she has 1.5% vision in one eye. Do with that information what you will. Also, the picture shows that they were handing her the clothing, not having her identify what people on the show were wearing. Pretty neat trick. Don’t read German, but as pointed out, she’s being handed clothing. The picture is small, but the two samples shown appear to have different fabric. The blindfold also looks suspicious. It’s Randi time. [quote=picunurse] and he didn’t offer to show is ability with _other_ articles you were wearing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-this-woman-really-recognize-color-by-touch/325729.md?page=3)